I would love to hear about a pilot catching one of these guys climbing on their airplane, immediatly scream "terrorist!!!" and let the beat down commence and ask questions later.

Then defend thier actions by saying that terrorists could easily buy a TSA uniform and pretend to do an inspection to gain access to an airplane to use in a hostile matter.

After all, they use that exscuse when they put us through so much scrutiny.

What was the status of these aircraft when Inspector Destruction came on the scene? Were they in daily active service, RON, spare, etc?

The reason I ask is aircraft are not required to be secure at all times. If he was climbing on the TAT probe, then the cabin door was closed (I'd assume). If these aircraft were in active service and door closed, then this should not be an issue. If they were OTS or RON, then this is not an issue. An aircraft does not have to be observed 24 hours a day. That is one of the many reasons that we do security checks on first flight and after an aircraft has been left unattended.

Please, don't insult GED grads by comparing them to the TSA clowns.:(

Is there a chance you pilots will have to put the "Club" on the yoke for every overnight.

Shees...you got the key?. Ahhh, no...I forgot to get it from the incoming crew....;)

A notorious TSA agent was locked in the cargo bin of an RJ at CVG for several hours after a ramp agent witnessed him get into the bin. The agent waited for him to get in completely, closed the door, and went back to his normal job duties.

I have a feeling this is going to get Congressional attention if they levy fines on Eagle. Could turn out to be a good thing in the long run...

time to start leaving the airplanes powered up with the pitot heaters on overnight :D

In service aircraft. Parked overnight. He simulated a badguy not having access through the jetbridge door by climbing up the TAT probes into the jetbridge, then opening the main door. They were promptly taken out of service by MX when they did their morning inspections prior to first flight.
40 flights delayed. At least one Captain made a spectacular PA letting all the Pax know the real reason the planes were all delayed.

Any Kidding aside RE: previous post.

I'm not a pilot, however I'm a huge aviation/airline buff and a long time pAX, having flown my share of miles.

As a PAX, this is something that could push a potential customer over the edge, maybe it already has.

In the airline business, a business under tremendous stress and with razor thin margins- how can we (collectively as customer and provider) accept this?

How many of the booked passengers have already said, "next time, I'll drive"?

I've had little respect for the TSA previously, now even less.

9/10 they worked for Wackenhut making maybe a little above minimum wage. Today they are federal employees doiing....well... go back to the first post....

Im going to quit my job and work for TSA. I break a plane now, I have to talk to the chief pilot, possibly go through retraining, maybe even get fired. I work for TSA and break a plane, my company sticks up for me tells me I did a good thing, then fines the aircraft owner. Cant get much better than that! Did I mention the pay is better?

Is this true? Because if it is...that technique needs to get shared far and wide, and universally applied. Kudos to that agent for neutralizing an imminent hazard to the safety of the aircraft. :D

If the TSA performs these types of "try and get in the airplane by any means practical" investigations on a regular basis at numerous airports around the country, one would think the administration has an obligation to inform the respective airline's operations manager, or at least the flight crew for the aircraft, for that base/airplane that the inspection has taken place before they even board any passengers. Think if something less noticeable were to be broken by an overzealous TSA agent?

Hopefully this incident will open the public's eyes to one of an apparently many organizational and administrative flaws the TSA currently has and will help to improve what could and needs to be a very useful and well run agency if run by the right people.

Not exactly... One of our rampers saw a "suspicious" individual roaming around the SIDA area, get into the cargo bin of a CRJ-200. The ramper closed the cargo bin latch on him and called the airport police. It was a HUGE fiasco where Police opened the bin at gunpoint shutting down the ramp for over an hour.

Needless to say that TSA agent didnt crawl into anymore luggage bins after that.

Take this one step farther for all those FFDOs out there. You see a suspicious person tampering with your airplane, order him/her to the ground at gun point.

What I don't understand is how an individual decided to take it upon himself to go out there and mess with aircraft he knew nothing about. Those are there for a reason and it's not to run up the cost of the airplane. What if they hadn't been noticed and the crew was operating in ORD in the winter? TSA needs some fences put up.

Why not join us? I can't comment on SOP.

It is publicly known that an FFDO is deputized to protect the flight deck and the flight deck only. So its doubtful that you would see an FFDO holding a TSA agent at gun point, unless they were inside the cockpit.

So wait 30 more seconds:D


Disclaimer: This was a joke.

A little simpler than the other explanation. When air runs into something, or something runs into air (like and airplane), the air gets compressed. When it gets compressed it gets heated. The additional heating is called the ram rise.

Total Air temperature (TAT) is the sum of the static air temperature (SAT) outside and the heat generated from the compression, the ram rise.

Oh yeah, the TSA are a bunch of idiots.

I first read about this in AvWeb's AvFlash Newsletter:
AVwebFlash Complete Issue

While I'm not a commercial pilot (yet), I see continued frustration from everyone who is doing their job (except TSA agents that is), Flight Crews, Ramp Agents, Ops, Fuelers, etc.

This just goes on my list of major areas where the TSA fails.

Oh, that is the beauty of our government. Some stupid higher up manager got approval from his higher up to authorize this stupid plan of action. No one is smart enough, especially TSA, to act on their own.

I don't think police would give a damn if you had strong reason to believe that your airplane was being broken into and your life was in danger.

Pilots Furious Over TSA-Damaged Airplanes

http://www.avweb.com/newspics/TATprobe.jpg Fourteen American Eagle aircraft were damaged overnight on Monday at Chicago's O'Hare International Airport when a TSA inspector used instrument probes as handholds to test the security of the aircraft from tampering, ABCNews reported. Over 40 flights were delayed on Tuesday while mechanics checked the airplanes. "Our inspector was following routine procedure for securing the aircraft that were on the tarmac," TSA official Elio Montenegro told ABC. However, "There is a sign that clearly says don't step," Mary Frances Fagan, a spokeswoman for American Airlines, which operates American Eagle, told the Chicago Tribune. One pilot who posted on an Internet forum wrote, "The brilliant [TSA] employees used an instrument located just below the cockpit window that is critical to the operation of the onboard computers. They decided this instrument, the TAT probe, would be adequate to use as a ladder."

TSA workers will be retrained to ensure that the problem doesn't happen again, Montenegro said.
AVwebFlash Complete Issue

It just keeps getting better.....


Yahoo!

I'm sure the police wouldn't, but the FFDO program is run by, guess who, the TSA.

The TSA doesn't really like being challenged, so unless that pilot wants to risk losing the privilege and/or possible civil action, it would probably be a good idea to keep the gun put away outside the aircraft, no matter the reason.

The TSA is the main reason the program is so bogged down by procedures and is a general pain in the ass for those involved.

Before someone here starts freaking out, for the record, I'm not an FFDO and have just spent some time on this website.

APSA - Airline Pilots Security Alliance

ABC News: Aviation Community In Uproar Over TSA's Botched Security Check

Pilots Outraged Over TSA Snafu That Grounded Nine Planes


By JOSEPH RHEE and ERIC LONGABARDI
August 20, 2008
http://a.abcnews.com/images/Site/byline_abcnews.gif

var addthis_pub = 'abcnews';
Pilots around the country expressed outrage and concern today about the safety of their planes following an incident where a TSA inspector, conducting a spot security check, used sensitive instrument probes as a handhold to climb onto parked aircraft at Chicago's O'Hare airport. As reported on ABCNews.com, the incident led to the grounding of nine American Eagle planes, causing a ripple effect that delayed 40 flights throughout the day.
http://a.abcnews.com/images/Blotter/..._080820_mn.jpgPilots around the country expressed outrage and concern on Wednesday over the safety of their planes following a TSA inspector's spot security check.
(ABC News)


Today pilots weighed in with hundreds of complaints on internet aviation forums over whether TSA inspectors were properly qualified to conduct such airplane safety checks, according to Jim Campbell of Aero-News Network, a widely-read aviation industry news service. Campbell said he received over 600 e-mails from worried pilots and other aviation workers.

"This was and is a deadly serious issue," one e-mailer wrote. "I envision something like a TSA inspector trying to remove a prop lock as part of a security check and imparting a stress fracture into a blade."



TSA maintained that its agents are qualified to perform security inspections of parked airplanes. "Our inspectors are extensively trained over what their responsbility entails," TSA spokesperson Elio Montenegro told ABCNews.com. However, Montenegro said he did not know if inspectors received detailed training on aircraft flight systems.

Many pilots today expressed skepticism that TSA inspectors are properly trained. "Their job is to screen baggage and people," wrote an e-mailer. "How the TSA can train their inspectors on every single different style and type of airplane is a question many would like answered. Flight attendants and pilots go to school for months just to learn one specific make and model... but TSA inspectors can apparently walk onto ANY aircraft at ANY time and know exactly what belongs and what doesn't."

Given the sensitivity of the equipment affected by yesterday's incident, Campbell said TSA's security program could have deadly consequences. "I flat out predict that if this continues, an aircraft will be brought down," said Campbell.

TSA maintained that its agents are qualified to perform security inspections of parked airplanes. "Our inspectors are extensively trained over what their responsbility entails," TSA spokesperson Elio Montenegro told ABCNews.com

Apparently they are not trained enough!:rolleyes:

Exactly!!

Mr. Montenegro, how bout you start out with a simple apology and admission first.

Makes one wonder what entails "Extensive training" Maybe they should let us all know how they define Extensive? :rolleyes:

I'm sure those 20 year old kids are suited to these responsibilities

"Extensive" is Ebonics for "very little and insufficient" ...

note: also see "retarded", "brain dead", "incompetent" & "useless".

Next to a picture of Montenegro

This guy.. and his immediate superiors need to be prosecuted. This is criminal vandalism or reckless endangerment at the very least. ALPA?

I person who broke the airplanes really does need to be arrested and charged with in reckless endangerment of lives and conspiring to commit an act of terrorism. Throw the person in Guantanamo for 7 years and abuse them before thinking about his civil liberties.

Maybe I missed it, but has anyone heard if Eagle plans to retaliate with a lawsuit towards the TSA? Parts, labor, canceled flights and other logistics associated could make this a costly pill to swallow. Costly or financial speed bump, either way Eagle shouldn't be held responsible to pick up the check.

AMR is famous (infamous perhaps) for having fantastic lawyers. I don't anticipate this will cost mother anything in the long-run.

"Our inspector was following routine procedure for securing the aircraft that were on the tarmac," Montenegro told ABCNews.com.

"The TSA agent was attempting to determine if someone could break into a parked aircraft", according to Montenegro.

I'd expect better from an official spokesperson. Monty should have edited one word out of his statement, he could proudly declare "mission accomplished":

"The TSA agent was attempting to determine if someone could break a parked aircraft."

I'm suprised the TSA didn't try taking the head off of the towbar and using that as a blunt object to smash his way into the airplanes.

I know a couple guys that are CFI's now but, they did stint with the TSA for a job. They said it was joke and absolutly had no training about the aircraft.

I've sent a number of emails to my elected officials about TSA issues. This one is the most recent. These people are criminals. It's a federal offense to damage aircraft. They should be prosecuted.

This is an awesome post coming from someone named "Hobopilot" with a picture of a guy with a beer hat.... WOW

ALPA, TSA Address Security Inspection Deficiencies
Recent activities by TSA Aviation Direct Access Screening Program (ADASP) personnel culminated in an event at Chicago’s O’Hare International that demonstrated that some TSA personnel are unfamiliar with the proper ways to access parked aircraft. ALPA and TSA are working together to ensure that everyone involved in these activities has an appropriate understanding of relevant procedures.


On August 19, a TSA inspector assigned to the ADASP moved around several aircraft using external parts as handholds. The inspector was unaware of the potential damage he could have inflicted to the equipment or of the threat to safety.


ADASP was created for Transportation Security Officers to provide security screening for the presence of explosives, incendiaries, weapons, and other prohibited items or improper airport identification media. The security screening occurs at direct access points to include airport secured areas, sterile areas, and or aircraft operating areas except for TSA screening checkpoints.


Following report of the problem at ORD, TSA leadership immediately issued a message to reemphasize the importance of complying with the guidance provided in the ADASP Procedure Manual.


ALPA’s National Security Committee has been in contact with TSA officials to ensure that similar incidents are not repeated in the future. “Something like this can affect safety,” said ALPA president, Capt. John Prater. “We want to make it clear to TSA that, while we applaud their efforts to ensure the security of our aircraft, no action on their part can undermine safety.”

“We are reviewing this incident to discover whether the problem is procedural within TSA, or only involved one inspector,” said Capt. Bob Hesselbein, ALPA National Security Committee Chairman.