skidmark

Once again they cannot and will not staple us. Because of the transportation bill signed last December.

FlyJSH

While we may quible over which union is better (and I have an opnion), the point is Colgan needs SOME union. After the vote, the group MUST unify and support the COLGAN UNION.

It would be a tragedy if the choice of union caused a rift in the pilot group.

MD340

I agree we need representation!!! However we need a union that will represent us, THE COLGAN PILOTS and not have any aliegence to the Pinnacle pilots.
ALPA cannot represent us without worring about what the pinnacle pilots want!!!
ALPA made a big mistake with US AIR when they did not favor the bigger pilot group and US AIR voted them out. It cost ALPA over 10 million per year. If ALPA were to represent Colgan they would always favor the bigger pilot group which happens to be pinnacle. They are not going to make that mistake again.

The scope language that the Pinnacle pilot group wants to put into their new contract will limit us Colgan Pilots to flying Aircraft with 34 seats and that is one of the issues that the mgm is fighting. If the Colgan pilots were to be represented by ALPA I do not think the management would care who was flying the aircraft and let the pinnacle pilots have them and ALPA will again favor the bigger pilot group and that will leave us with just the SAABs.

There are just to many issues between the two pilot groups that will at some point have to be addressed to have one union reperesenting both of us.

ALPA will do for Colgan what ALPA did for US Air

MudPupppy

I suggest you take some time and learn more about how ALPA works and do more research then what you hear in the crew room. ALPA doesn't need to worry about what we want and what PNCL wants. The Colgan pilots and the PNCL pilots get their contracts, not ALPA. Think of ALPA as a franchise. so you actually believe that PNCL will limit colgan to 34 seat stuff huh, Pilots and conspiracy theories, who killed Kennedy btw?

I can tell by your post you really don't know what your talking about. You said, "ALPA made a big mistake when they did not favor the bigger pilot group." Then never favored any pilot group, ALPA merger policy was followed. USAIRWAYS pilots and AWA pilots were at the helm throughout the merger. Then the merged list was decided by an independant arbitrator. I think the best leason learned was avoid going to arbitration in a merger, but I actually took the time to figure out what happened. If you want to go by what you hear in the crew room fine, but your doing yourself and your coworkers a disservice.

The ALPA OC put their names out in the open day 1 with a letter to the pilot group, the IBT 747 OC hasn't done anything. That in itself speaks volumes. ALPA cards authorize a vote by the pilots, signing an IT card could mean IBT becomes a union without a vote. These little things add up and show alot about a group. Colgan has stated they would prefer IBT to ALPA. There is another warning flag, of course they want the union that will have the least bargaining power.

There isn't and doesn't have to be issues between the pilot groups. Those who are choosing to act like little kids are far and few,and they will remain at the childrens table. At the big person table everyting is fine and everyone knows we can work together to make both pilot groups lives better. The PNCL pilots deserve a new contract, and the Colgan pilots deserve representation that they can use to better their lives. ALPA or IBT can do that, in the end it's up to the pilots. But ALPA provides the best resources, lawyers, support, training and will power. Who is the IBT OC again?

mooney

Gosh that almost sounds like a comspiracy theory along the lines of TWA 800 or 9/11! So you don't want allegiance to/with the Pinnacle pilots? Hate to break it to ya but the work of the pinnacle pilots is the reason you have Q's, which, by the way, I don't know of ANYBODY here that wants to take them away from you and have 9e pilots flying them .
The reason you need ALPA and not the international association of paper-sizzors-rock players is so WE CAN be UNIFIED, not ALIENATED by management.

Nevets

You have no clue what you are talking about when it comes to ALPA.

If you vote ALPA, you will vote for your representatives. These will be Colgan line pilots. They will represent Colgan pilots at their MEC. ALPA national does NOT tell any MEC how to decide anything. Each individual MEC acts in its own best interest.

You are right about ALPA national not favoring the bigger pilot group in USAir. Nor did they favor the smaller group either. Each individual MEC made its decision independently of each other or ALPA national. And it didn't cost it $10 million per year. Where did you hear that?

If ALPA were to represent Colgan pilots, its MEC would do whats best for Colgan pilots. ALPA national has no authority to make decisions for the Colgan MEC.

As for scope, the best thing you can do there is combine both pilot groups.

EWRflyr

OK, I know the previous posts have already responded to you about this, but it is worth repeating so that the facts get drilled into your head as well as the heads of all those others who are either spouting scare tactics or are just misinformed.

1. ALPA National did nothing to favor one pilot group over the other in the USAirways/America West seniority dispute. ALPA National has a Constitution and By-Laws (C&BL) containing exactly how ALPA will operate. (As an ALPA member you would have online access to this very document to read every word.) It contains ALPA merger policy as referenced above. Both America West and USAirways pilot groups followed ALPA merger policy as dictated and attempted to combine seniority lists. When they couldn't agree, ALPA policy says they can make use of a neutral (independent) arbitrator agreed to by both sides to come up with a binding solution. This is what happened. When the result angered one pilot group, they appealed to the Executive Council. All the Executive Council could do at that point was look at the entire process to make sure every step was followed according to policy and that each group knew the process. Both sides did and ALPA National had no choice but to accept the award because the process was followed correctly. ALPA National provided the tools and one group didn't like the outcome they chose.

2. ALPA National takes direction from all the individual airline MECs out there. Most people don't realize this because most people don't get involved enough to know how ALPA works. YOU vote for your representatives for your MEC. If you don't like something or want something changed, YOU can introduce a resolution at your LEC level. YOUR LEC representatives then take it to the MEC for a vote. If it passes this gives direction to the MEC. If it regards ALPA National, then YOUR MEC takes it up to the next level for a vote.

3. One union working together across all the brands under it's corporate umbrella is the best scenario. Coordination between MECs can prevent whip-sawing back and forth. A united front to management shows one group is not going to be pushed around at the expense of the other.

4. Can you tell me what other union will provide you access to the resources that ALPA provides? Aero Medical division working to get YOU back in the cockpit if you lose your medical. Insurance department which has many different types of short-term, long-term, disability, life and loss of license insurance designed SPECIFICALLY for pilots. A financial analysis department whose only job is to compile data on the financial health of companies and run numbers on what they know companies can afford to pay, etc. during contract negotiations. The union that pushed hard to get jumpseats back after 9/11. The union that pushed for CASS. The union that fought for CrewPass. The teamsters is not going to provide you that and does not look out for your best interests as a PILOT.

You get what you want in a contract because you and your fellow pilots stand up for what you want. It's management's job to spread fear of furlough, downgrades, reduction in flying, chapter 11 etc. That is what they do to intimidate. They will tell you we can keep this a family and take care of any problems easier without a union. Sorry, but without a contract and labor protections in it I wouldn't trust airline management not to fire any pilot as soon as they hit top pay or for whatever reason.

Make your decision, but make it with facts. Don't let fear, rumors, and innuendo decide your future. YOU have the right to cast a vote for the union you want (or don't as the case may be). However, the IBTs possible attempt to deny you a vote based on the one sentence in their card already should show you what I and others think about the Teamsters.

kalyx522

LISTEN to what you're saying, dude. You're saying US Air got screwed because ALPA "did not favor the bigger pilot group." My point EXACTLY. ALPA didn't "favor" anyone in that merger. But then you say, "ALPA will do for Colgan what they did for US Air." Do you mean, they're not going to favor anyone? Because that's what you want, right? Or do you mean, they won't favor the bigger pilot group? Because that's also what you want, right? So, I don't see what your point is.
ALPA would "always favor the bigger pilot group?" I thought you just said they didn't favor the bigger pilot group that was US Air? What makes you think, that if ALPA didn't do specials favors a big, established pilot group like US Air, they would do it for a much smaller group like Pinnacle? Can you tell me how ALPA would even make any favors?? PILOT representatives from both companies negotiate these issues, NOT ALPA. It's not like ALPA makes decisions on who will get the better end of the deal, like you and others are suggesting.
Why don't you just look up how the actual ALPA merger policy works instead of insulting your own intelligence and listening to others who have no clue what they're talking about? And FYI, ALPA didn't screw US Air.. they CHOSE to go to arbitration. Since you obviously don't know the facts about that merger, arbitrators are neutral parties and decisions made by them are final... anyone willing to give up the decision to the arbitrator knows that. You can't cry about it after the fact if the arbitrator ultimately comes up with a decision you feel is unfair... should've never let it go to arbitration in the first place then! I'm not saying US Air pilots didn't get screwed in the ******* in the process.. but that screwing wasn't done by ALPA, and anyone citing this US Air example to bolster their opinion of not voting for ALPA needs to understand the facts.

HercDriver130

You DO NOT want the IBT..... nuff said.

Machnumber

IBT went ahead and sent out a email regarding the whole authorizing to vote thing.... thought i would post it up so everyone could read.


"Colgan Air Crewmembers:
I wanted to address some concerns regarding the organizing drive and the National Mediation Board (NMB) election. The key fact to remember is that these are two separate events. The organizing drive is a time to educate you on the potential benefits of electing IBT Local 747 as your bargaining representation, and to demonstrate to the NMB a showing of interest in order for them to authorize a representation election. This showing of interest is demonstrated through signing and submitting organizing (aka authorization) cards.

In order to file for a representation election with the NMB on your behalf, the NMB requires 35% of eligible crewmembers to sign and submit cards. The Teamsters have an internal requirement of 65%. The rationale behind this higher requirement is that once the election is filed for and authorized by the NMB, if 50% plus one of the pilot group does not vote "yes" for a union, a one year bar from attempting to obtain representation goes into place. You as Colgan Air pilots have already experienced the one year bar, where the Company was guaranteed inaction by the pilot group no matter how bad the work rules became or general dissatisfaction increased. We take your opportunity to gain representation seriously therefore we strive for 65%.

After the requisite number of authorization cards is submitted and the election is authorized, you will then be mailed voting instructions along with a voter identification number (VIN) and personal identification number (PIN). It is then, during the election, that you cast your vote for union representation, not with the signing and submission of an authorization card.

The risk of the pilot group internalizing false information regarding the significance of a signed authorization card is insurmountable. Remember, there are two thresholds to gaining union representation: (1) signing and submitting your authorization card, and (2) casting your vote for IBT Local 747 once the National Mediation Board election is authorized. I've attached a rough outline detailing these steps, in addition to what happens during and immediately after the election.

There have also been rumors that Colgan can by-pass an election and voluntarily allow a union on property to represent you. Is this true? Actually yes, the National Mediation Board does allow a company to voluntarily accept (in writing) a union chosen by the majority of its workers onto its property. Is this probable? No. What company would voluntarily invite a union onto the property unless it was an in-house union controlled by the company? If Colgan was willing to allow a union on the property without you fighting for it, would you really need a union to begin with? The voluntary recognition clause does exist, but the likelihood of it being invoked by Colgan is highly improbable. A quick resource for questions regarding the NMB is Frequently Asked Questions: Representation.

Remember, not only stay strong, but more importantly stay informed. We look forward to talking and meeting with you during the Q&A sessions being held in EWR, IAD and IAH. For times and locations, please see our website at Teamsters Local Union No. 747 Home. And as always, if you have any questions, please feel free to email or call me.

Don’t let others distract you from what is truly important—the interests of Colgan Air Pilots."