My Thoughts.

#1. First and Foremost. We need to have a union that works for us the regional pilots, not the mainline.

#2. Industry Standard rates for equipment. And every pilot at every regional needs to stand up for their brothers and sisters when one company tries to lower the rates. If that company can not afford to sustain itself because of fairly paid professional pilots then that company needs to go away.

If we take our individual price off the table then other cost savings will be the issue. ie:VP and CEO Bonus checks for loosing performance.

And we have to get away from this $20ish/hour a year being acceptable for FO's. You cannot hold a second job on reserve and you certainly cannot live on that rate.

Oh, whoa sorry I slipped into a false reality. Seriously though something needs to be done. We cannot afford to let it erode any further and we need to stop this blame game from one pilot group to another. Divide and conquer is what they are up too. We need to stick together.

Blaming Rj's for mainline downfall is bogus, that is consumer driven.

Blaming mainline guys for allowing Rj's in scope again, silly and non productive.

Blaming one company for going into a new area to get new business is competition, plain and simple its going to happen.

But if we take pilot pay off of the table, the field levels a bit more.

Of course none of this will happen with out my #1 thought.

I am rambling, what are your thoughts?

 

If you had a Regional Airline Centric Union, would you be willing to do an industry wide seniority list covering member airlines?

 

good business plan, but considering what some guys are getting on the 737 and a320, what do you consider a fair wage for a CRJ FO at 1,5,7 years and CRJ capt at 1,5,7, 10 years, assuming there is no flow thru program (like they ever work anyway, eagle pilots you know what i mean)

 

It doesnt matter. We are all working for competing companys. While it would be nice if we could change things. It wont happen with force. It will have to balanceout on its own.

 

Does anyone have an answer or opinion on Industry Wide seniority list covering member airlines of a Regional Pilot Union???

 

The thaught of an industry wide senoirty list has gone around for decades. Problem is that people are greedy and don't want to loose what they built at their airline. Meaning that say a competetor of equal size goes out of bussiness, would you want to take a pay cut for those pilots? The answer for 45 years has been no. The American guys are looking at Delta and saying make a stand. Who bennifits if Delta goes under? Will American Captains go back to the pay of right seat for em? Will a low seniortity F/O go to the street at American under this senerio? The answer is greed rules.

 

While some union trades will have a union hall where your hall seniority determines your work opportunities, those trades are very portable: You can work 2 days at company A, then 3 days at company B, then take 5 days off. So you're often not really even employed by one company.

This would probably never work for us due to the regulatory requirements associated with working at a particular airline...the training overhead associated with swapping jobs would be too high. And the only way to fix that would be standardizing all aircraft equipment and operating procedures throughout the US...not a chance in h&ll...

Their is still too much benefit to retaining some loyalty to one's own company...SWA and AA pilots have faired reasonably well by working with, not against their employers in the post 9/11 collapse.


I think the best we can realistically accomplish is a national minimum standard for pilot pay and work rules, pro-rated for number of seats. This would baseline a minimumlivable wage (ex. $40K) for lowest entry level. This could be accomplished by the existing unions, ALPS, SWAPA, APA.

Also despite what was originally stated, it is vital that ALL pilots are represented by the same union, or at least unions that are willing to cooperate with one another. The mainline guys are starting to realize that by totally disregarding the needs of the regional guys, they have created a monster that is already going to take a large bite out of their collective ass. A separate regional union would only serve to further undermine the industry as a whole because it would just turn into an us-vs-them free-for-all. This would only benefit a very few senior career regional captains who could make a little more money if their regional were to operate 737 or buses...and those guys are out there waiting to strike too...

Unity is what worked for the unions originally, and that's what we have to get back to.

 

Most pilots are represented by the same union now and look at what has happened. It's one union with multiple payscales and work rules. That doesn't seem to be working. Everyone continues to undercut everyone else so that they don't go out of business and at the same time bringing everyone down. I think it needs to be one payscale or contract and if management can't keep the business going then it goes under.

 

An idea like this sounds like it would be the best place to start. We have developed a national minimum wage for any job, we could theoretically accomplish this for the aviation industry.

Here's the problem. The national minimum wage is something along the lines of $5.75/hr. You do the math on that and you make less than $12K a year working 40 hours a week. So while we sit here and complain about how crappy regional pay is, think about the fact that you dont work a typical full time job and make almost double that to start. Now I realize that I could be 15 and not qualified for anything and get a minimum wage job and we are trained professionals.

But going back to Rickair's comment, developing an industry minimum wage seems feasible and something that could be accomplished through the unions.

 

The difference is it has cost me $25,000 to earn my ratings alone. This doesn't include the college degree And if you average my pay out over the 2080 hours in a 40 hour work week I make a powerful $8.26/hour, and get to spend most nights away from home. All of this for something called a professional job. WOW!

Yes we do, Yes it is. The probem is its getting worse from the top down.

Mimimum wage is a joke and should not be tolerated by anybody.

A national seniority list won't work but national wages will. A 5 year capt flying a 50 passenger RJ for anybody should make the same money. The bid he or she can hold would have to depend on senority with in ones own airline.

mccube5 I am not trying to flame your thought just taking it a bit further. We are making minimum wage.

Good discussion,

Later