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-   -   Why do we accept these wages? (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/regional/31356-why-do-we-accept-these-wages.html)

saab2000 09-25-2008 04:22 AM


Originally Posted by Joachim (Post 465217)
It is no different in the EU. British, Lufthansa, KLM and the other "big dogs" all hire local contractors and whoever gives them the best deal wins. Capitalism...

That is not entirely correct. It is actually different in Europe. I used to work there. One difference is that there are airlines that operate so-called 'regional' aircraft that are stand-alone operators and do not fly under contract, or at least not solely under contract, for bigger national carriers.

When I worked in Europe I made a living wage flying SAAB2000s. The things we take as 'normal' are inconceivable in most of western Europe. At least that was my experience.

We had clean airplanes and humane working conditions. The stuff they complain about as being hard and brutal we in the US would welcome as improvements. I am not kidding.

But that's a whole 'nuther tangent.

logic1 09-25-2008 04:30 AM


Originally Posted by Jetcap37 (Post 467606)
Regionals are what checkrunners used to be. Time builders. Nobody in their right mind will say that they are going to make a career out of regional;)

So take it for what it is, bottom wages to build time to move on to something bigger and better.

Whats bigger and better....A United 737 fo maxing out at $93/hr ?

LeftWing 09-25-2008 04:57 AM


Originally Posted by milky (Post 466057)
How can you claim that you are underpaid? What pay do you deserve? You deserve the exact amount that the airline can hire people to do your job. Right now, they could actually lower wages and benefits at your airline, and I would bet they would keep getting plenty of 'qualified' applicants. You don't deserve anything. You have the right to work wherever will hire you. If you do not agree with how much pilots are being paid, you are welcome to work for a different industry. Stop with the F'ing Marxism on here. We are a free country. Wages and prices are set by the market. The market shows that pilots will work for shi**y wages.

You're confused. The discourse of capitalism vs. socialism is not black and white. Newsflash; Capitalism in its extremity is just as bad as socialism in its extremity. One checks the other. So, when one advocates more regulation, that doesn't mean they are a Marxist:rolleyes: and it certainly doesn't mean that they should move to another country. However, if you have a problem with someone exercising their right to free speech (in this case, an advocate of more regulation (the Marxists:rolleyes:) to the point of you telling them to leave the country, it is you that needs to move.

own nav 09-25-2008 06:09 AM


Originally Posted by logic1 (Post 468135)
Whats bigger and better....A United 737 fo maxing out at $93/hr ?

Apparently you didn't get the memo, United 737's are history.

saab2000 09-25-2008 06:13 AM


Originally Posted by own nav (Post 468182)
Apparently you didn't get the memo, United 737's are history.

Memo? What memo? I flew on one just the other day.

own nav 09-25-2008 11:54 AM


Originally Posted by saab2000 (Post 468185)
Memo? What memo? I flew on one just the other day.

Hope you enjoyed it. Put it in your book of memories next to the old United 727s.

milky 09-25-2008 04:52 PM


Originally Posted by LeftWing (Post 468145)
You're confused. The discourse of capitalism vs. socialism is not black and white. Newsflash; Capitalism in its extremity is just as bad as socialism in its extremity. One checks the other. So, when one advocates more regulation, that doesn't mean they are a Marxist:rolleyes: and it certainly doesn't mean that they should move to another country. However, if you have a problem with someone exercising their right to free speech (in this case, an advocate of more regulation (the Marxists:rolleyes:) to the point of you telling them to leave the country, it is you that needs to move.

I didn't ask anybody to leave. I just asked him to try out socialism in a country that is already there so as to not experiment on the country I hold so dear. That way there would still be a mostly free market economy to come back to when the experiment is over. And, there is not extreme to capitalism that is evil. There is corruption and fraud that is possible under both systems. But, there is nothing inherently bad with a nearly purely free economy. On the other hand, ever bit of socialism can be directly linked to social and economic ills. Name a social problem, and I can show you plenty of ill effects that were not expected but should have been...

HercDriver130 09-25-2008 05:04 PM

and since things are soooo much better in the EU.... you are here...why?....simply a question.


Originally Posted by saab2000 (Post 468130)
That is not entirely correct. It is actually different in Europe. I used to work there. One difference is that there are airlines that operate so-called 'regional' aircraft that are stand-alone operators and do not fly under contract, or at least not solely under contract, for bigger national carriers.

When I worked in Europe I made a living wage flying SAAB2000s. The things we take as 'normal' are inconceivable in most of western Europe. At least that was my experience.

We had clean airplanes and humane working conditions. The stuff they complain about as being hard and brutal we in the US would welcome as improvements. I am not kidding.

But that's a whole 'nuther tangent.


stoki 09-25-2008 09:01 PM


Originally Posted by HercDriver130 (Post 468513)
and since things are soooo much better in the EU.... you are here...why?....simply a question.

All he did was state that flying in Europe and in general the aviation industry is much healthier then it is here, which is a fact, and you jump on him.

He is correct. Your post seems to have a hint of some sort of remorse. Instead of getting mad that its better in the EU ... or anywhere else in the world for that matter as far as professional aviation goes, why don't you look into how and why its better, and hope that we can have it as good as them in the U.S, and how we should take advantage of the next oppurtunity to change it.

HercDriver130 09-26-2008 02:40 AM

Stoki, I was not jumping on him. I am just interested why he choose to fly in the US rather than the EU. Especially in the light of his comments on how much better things are there, plain and simple. If that offends you ... tough.


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