Joachim

I work at a Delta-contractor, ERJ-145 carrier and it is not Mesa. I have been wondering lately how come operaters in all other countries manage to make a profit AND pay their pilots significantly more than US regional carriers. The difference in pay is astounding. Take for example european ERJ-145 carriers. On average a first year EU, FO makes the same as a first year US CAPT. Thats a huge difference. Now the jump from 1st year FO to 3rd year captain is not as big in the EU as in the states, but the overall income in a row of say 10 years is much higher. Even Chinese ERJ pilots wages are similar to EU wages. BTW. I based these numbers on payscales from: BMI, Flybe, Alitalia, LOT and Regional (france). How come these non-subsidized companies manage to turn a profit and pay livable FO wages? Why is a regional FO worth $60K in EU and China but not in the US?

Thank you

Flyby1206

In the US companies are whipsawed against each other to fight for flying. If regional A asks for too much pay then regional B will accept 5% less pay for the same job. We have too many regional carriers in the US, which reduces the amount of leverage in contract negotiations. If Delta was only allowed to use 1 regional carrier for feed then it would be a different story.

Joachim

It is no different in the EU. British, Lufthansa, KLM and the other "big dogs" all hire local contractors and whoever gives them the best deal wins. Capitalism...

brownie

I bet you won't find any regional pilots paying 20000 euros to make 15000 a year flying a 19 seater. We are our own worst enemy willing to pay to get a job or just being paid the minimum wage to sit on right seat of a jet.

250 or point 65

you just answered your own question when you said "i work for a regional carrier." if you weren't willing to fly for that price, why are you?

rustypigeon

Not only do US pilots fly for peanuts, there are companies out there that make YOU PAY THEM to fly... and people are still lining up at the door to do it.

To answer your question, why do airlines pay us crap? Because they can!

121PyLut

...because we are still in the mindset, "it's all about getting to the majors"...even though nowadays (as you all know) those majors are not paying as good as they were back in the day...we seem to be stuck in that frame of mind...

stoki

Because they can, and there is still a line of pilots waiting to do it is the reason.

There is no solidarity between the pilots. Nothing but infighting and bickering for the most part. If the pilot group functioned as one, there wouldnt be this problem. Say no, and thats the bottom line, raise wages or nobody flies. What choice do they have?

But with the way things are, who cares if one person, or one small group says no, when there is a line of guys behind them itching to take their position for less. It's unbelievable really.

Take example at what is happening at Alitalia now. The airline is about to go under and management asks the F/As and pilots for concessions. Guess what? They arent budging. For now its either their pay and contract stays as it is, or the airline goes under. It will be really interesting to see what happens as this continues, but thats the kind of pilot group we need. Is one that is united, with the same stance. I wish we had a group like that state side when we needed one. Here everybody is ready to trample the guy in front of him to get into a jet for 15,000$ a year.

poor pilot

The issues in pay are as simple as supply and demand. I don't mean to hijack your thred I just want to add a point. The main problem is we all know we don't dictate demand, thats in the hands of the pax and management. Where we go wrong as a industry and a national Pilot group is that we don't control the supply of pilots. The airline industry is one of the few professions that allows any one with the money to buy some ratings and time and boom you have a job if one is available(demand). According to the AAMC(American Association of Medical Colleges) 546,817 applied to medical school 17,759 applicants actually got in. Dental school had 11,000 applications I could not find how many got in. I guess the big question is how can we do this. I don't exactly know but i do know if we had some type of certification besides the the ticket the feds give out. A simple non-factual example 50,000 ALPA certified working today every year 1,000 pilots are certified and thats it no more subtract retired piots from the total number well the industry has only x number of pilots to choose from. I understand the theory of power in numbers but the power is undercut by the surplus of pilots. Outside of the US they don't have a surplus they have a shortage the same shortage that we have been talking about for years that just has not come to pass in the last 20-30 years. I think this idea can cause a shortage or at least even out the number. Simple supply and demand. I also think ALPA continues to drop the ball on providing information to CFI's building their time. The majority of CFI's don't always understand what they are getting themselves into as far as actual pay work rules and quality of life when the fill out that mesa application or other companies that lower the bar.

stoki

Thats right. The majors arent a great place to be anymore, either. The HUGE reduction in terms and conditions/wages that happened after 9/11 ruined some of the things to look forward too in this career. What kills me most is the groups gave away so damn much, and they will never see it given back to them. Every inch you give to management, you will never get back.

Management always seems to blame their failure to remain profitable on the pilots and how much they make. As if pilots pay is their full expenditure, how about their crappy management of the airline? Why should we pay for their mistakes? Never should have taken those concessions, at least not as big of ones as were taken. Even if it meant an airline going bust.

I just hope that all the starry eyed kids, who just got through watching "Catch me if you can" do their homework before starting flight training, and realise it's not worth it anymore and pick a different career path... because if people still continue going into this in the current numbers, knowing that the light at the end of the tunnel is just a freight train comming your way, this career is doomed.