Regionals...shady?
#41
Thanks for the input. I have a plan in place, i'm going to wait about another year before I start seriously taking lessons. I plan to pace myself to get through the training in about 1 year - 1 1/2 years.
Hopefully moving slower will allow me to retain more of what I learn. At that point, I'd like to get into instructing, do that for a year or two and build up some time, then i'd like to go into the regionals.
After the Thread that I have opened up, it seems that the veil of mystery is beginning to unfold in regard to the airline world. I'm not soo certain that commercial flying is the best way to go. Currently I'm single and have no kids....so life is easy in that regard, but I can't honestly say I want to go into my 30's with an unstable job outlook, and Sh*ty pay.
Hopefully moving slower will allow me to retain more of what I learn. At that point, I'd like to get into instructing, do that for a year or two and build up some time, then i'd like to go into the regionals.
After the Thread that I have opened up, it seems that the veil of mystery is beginning to unfold in regard to the airline world. I'm not soo certain that commercial flying is the best way to go. Currently I'm single and have no kids....so life is easy in that regard, but I can't honestly say I want to go into my 30's with an unstable job outlook, and Sh*ty pay.
"If you're going to tollerate this job/lifestyle, you have to love to fly. Not just "I think thats what I want to do." But seriously LOVE IT."
If you don't go into aviation with a die hard passion for it and know without a shadow of a doubt that it's the only thing in the world that you can see yourself doing, it might be rough for you. This is quite possibly (i say that because there are some industries out there that I just don't know anything about) the most volatile industry in the world. Things can change overnight that you would never see coming; both bad and good.
That being said, even pilots who are 100% convinced that this is the career they want don't make it. I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in feeling that airline initial training is grueling and usually very difficult. You're basically going to have to learn in about 2 months what would normally take about 6-8 months to fully learn ... hence the phrase "drinking from a fire hose".
I think you'd be very smart to get your training in, keep doing the research you have been (this is a great place to get information as you can tell), and instruct for a good while until you have at minimum 1000TT and 100M. That will get you some good experience out there in the world of flying, and put you in the drivers seat making the tough decisions you may not make as a student.
Whatever you choose to do, good luck, and always remember ... KEEP THE BLUE SIDE UP! Keep the questions coming, and keep us posted!
#42
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: Reclined
Posts: 2,168
Holy Hell.....I should stick to my original plan and be a part-time mime. So then here's another set of questions, if the majors mimimums are in the low thousands...what is the incentive for a FO at a regional to stay there verses just going to a major and start working? Ex: say you're FO at eagle, and you've been there for five years and have 5K TT under your belt, why wouldn't you just go on to work for American instead of continuing to work at a regional making chicken scratch for pay?
And so I guess my question about how long is a pilot typically on reserve has already been answered huh? There's no way to know as it depends on what the general move of pilots are like at the time that you get out of training and start flying?
What about commuting pilots? Is it free to travel when even when you're off duty? Do airline pilots gets to fly for free with other airlines?
And so I guess my question about how long is a pilot typically on reserve has already been answered huh? There's no way to know as it depends on what the general move of pilots are like at the time that you get out of training and start flying?
What about commuting pilots? Is it free to travel when even when you're off duty? Do airline pilots gets to fly for free with other airlines?
So, the old days of doing a few years at a regional, and then going to a major are long gone. Sure, a few will get to go that route, but nothing like how it used to be.
You are on reserve until there are enough people junior to you to cover reserve flying... which means your seniority is now high enough to hold a scheduled line. At places that are not hiring, anybody on reserve right now, will be on reserve until they begin hiring again.... that can be YEARS.
Yes, you can commute, but the best advice is not to, unless you have to. Living near your base is the best option. In most cases as a pilot you do fly (jumpseat) free on other airlines. In many cases you will pay a small annual fee to fly on your codeshare partners, and in one case you will pay service fees to fly on your own airline for the first five years, then coach becomes free.... (needless to say, those folks fly on everybody else but their own airline.
My advice would be to stay where the money is, get your license & ratings and just fly for fun. Never knowing your schedule from one month to the next, never being able to plan ahead, constant fear of furloughs, outsourcing, downsizing, fuel costs, reduced rest overnights after 6 leg days in hard IMC, and all the other worries that go with this job can take a toll on you, and it really is not the glory job people think it is. Add in the potential to lose your job for a medical, checkride or FAA isue at just about anytime, and it makes the idea even less attractive.
If you have a good stable career, I would be very very cautious of leaving just because you have shiney jet syndrome.
Other than that.... if you still have the flying curse, then you'll just have to go ahead and do it.
#43
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: NA-265-80
Posts: 94
Not sure I have a whole lot to offer to this thread other than to say that I've flown charter, cargo, jets, delivered pizza, cut vegetables at the supermarket, worked at Radio Shack and milked cows. I'm currently a turboprop F/O and having the most FUN I've ever had in my life.
That being said, I lined up a side job teaching ground school that helps pay the bills.
That being said, I lined up a side job teaching ground school that helps pay the bills.
#44
Sadly enough I still think I want in... I'm thinking of trying to get on with a good regional. Based on the research I've done, I determined that Skywest, Eagle, ASA, Comair, and Jetlink are some of the best. But I could be way off....anybody wanna weigh in? What airlines would you say are "good" in terms of QOL, least amount of furloughs, and pay?
Have you considered the Air National Guard? Take a look here: Air National Guard - Careers
I personally came up through the civilian ranks: Private, Instrument, Commercial, CFI, CFII, skydiver pilot, charter pilot, commuter pilot and finally UPS and I can tell you from my experience that quality-of-life is a MAJOR factor in the airline business. If you intend to take this route your quality-of-life is not going to be good. QOL is everything in this business.
My advise is:
1. Get your college degree. It doesn't matter what field your degree is in and there are many schools out there that offer on-line studies or have a "one-room schoolhouse" in your area. A college degree matters nowadays.
2. Take some flying lessons and get your private pilots license. How will you know that you want a flying career if you don't know what's involved or if you don't like flying? Continue moving up the ladder if you like it. Get your instrument rating, commercial pilots license and Multi-engine rating.
3. Make friends everywhere. This business is all about networking and some friend will likely help you move ahead.
4. Seriously look into the Air Guard. I believe that its structure and organization will help you get advanced training, responsibilities, promotions, experience and flying hours, etc. (ANG guys weigh in here.) Good opportunities exist for you to continue your current job AND fly good equipment. This means quality-of-life. Sure, you might have to make a 10 year commitment, but afterwards you can be flying for a major "people-mover" or top cargo airline. Not only that, but the military has excellent networking opportunities. Also, if you put in 20 years at the "guard" you get a monthly check from Uncle Sam, which is handy!
Hope this helps you make a decision.
#45
What is true today in regional-land, may not be the case in two years.
Absolutely true. Anyone can buy Microsoft stocks in 2008. But to get ahead you really had to buy Microsoft in 1987.
COMAIR and Eagle are both owned by their majors...however... it's not safe to assume that they will retain their protected status forever. When they get kicked out of the fold, they will eventually have to re-bid for their own jobs (this happened to jetlink).
Actually Comair lost its protected status when the pilots went on strike in 2001. Delta has been shrinking them since 2005. Comair had to re-bid for their own jobs in the 2006 RFP and lost. Comair jobs went to SKW, RAH, XJet, and ASA.
In addition... the day Comair emerged from bankruptcy, Delta celebrated by announcing a new DCI partner - Pinnacle - and awarding them CRJ900s.
And this week Delta awarded another batch of CRJ900s to Pinnacle... and tomorrow is the last day on the job for a hundred furloughed Comair pilots.
Absolutely true. Anyone can buy Microsoft stocks in 2008. But to get ahead you really had to buy Microsoft in 1987.
COMAIR and Eagle are both owned by their majors...however... it's not safe to assume that they will retain their protected status forever. When they get kicked out of the fold, they will eventually have to re-bid for their own jobs (this happened to jetlink).
Actually Comair lost its protected status when the pilots went on strike in 2001. Delta has been shrinking them since 2005. Comair had to re-bid for their own jobs in the 2006 RFP and lost. Comair jobs went to SKW, RAH, XJet, and ASA.
In addition... the day Comair emerged from bankruptcy, Delta celebrated by announcing a new DCI partner - Pinnacle - and awarding them CRJ900s.
And this week Delta awarded another batch of CRJ900s to Pinnacle... and tomorrow is the last day on the job for a hundred furloughed Comair pilots.
#46
Line Holder
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Oct 2008
Posts: 30
Ok so i have a question regarding days away from home. How many days would you say most airlines make you been on the road(air)? 150?? 200?
Also, how do most airlines do the rotations. Ex. week on, week off, or 3-4 days on, few days off then back again? Does it vary from airline to airline, or is a standard?
Also, how do most airlines do the rotations. Ex. week on, week off, or 3-4 days on, few days off then back again? Does it vary from airline to airline, or is a standard?
#47
Ok so i have a question regarding days away from home. How many days would you say most airlines make you been on the road(air)? 150?? 200?
Also, how do most airlines do the rotations. Ex. week on, week off, or 3-4 days on, few days off then back again? Does it vary from airline to airline, or is a standard?
Also, how do most airlines do the rotations. Ex. week on, week off, or 3-4 days on, few days off then back again? Does it vary from airline to airline, or is a standard?
#48
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,530
Ok so i have a question regarding days away from home. How many days would you say most airlines make you been on the road(air)? 150?? 200?
Also, how do most airlines do the rotations. Ex. week on, week off, or 3-4 days on, few days off then back again? Does it vary from airline to airline, or is a standard?
Also, how do most airlines do the rotations. Ex. week on, week off, or 3-4 days on, few days off then back again? Does it vary from airline to airline, or is a standard?
#49
Good Question! Pre-9/11 there appeared to be excellent prospects for moving on to a major after 4 years (or less) with a regional. Major airline CA pay approached or exceeded $300K at the top end, and work rules and QOL were better back then. I personally could not have made the same justification to switch careers today that I did back then.
Right now, the market might be kind of tight. A corporate wanna-be has two options...
1) Network his way up through GA. This is time-consuming, and it can be hard to get the turbine PIC needed for the best jobs. There is often no seniority system...if you are a co-pilot and your captain quits, odds are they will hire another captain off the street instead of promoting you if you don't have the PIC they want. Often insurance dictates the experience requirements, so the owner's hands are tied.
2) Go regional first and get a few 1000 hours of turbine time, and hopefully 1000 turbine PIC. The advantage here is you have the underlaying base experience for insurance purposes. The downside is that many corporate operators are leary of airline pilots...we basically show up, walk on the airplane, pre-flight, and go. The corporate pilot has many more duties, including flight-planing, cleaning, and customer interaction. It's a different mind-set, and some pilots with the "Airline Stink" have trouble adapting. But if you wanted to do it you could, but you would have to work to break into corporate at the entry level. Be aware that you definately need to be sociable and people-oriented, more so than airlines.
Also corporate is a mixed bag...many operators are shady or downright dangerous, and working conditions and schedules are often poor. The best corporate jobs have pay and QOL approaching the the best (most senior) airline jobs.
Right now, the market might be kind of tight. A corporate wanna-be has two options...
1) Network his way up through GA. This is time-consuming, and it can be hard to get the turbine PIC needed for the best jobs. There is often no seniority system...if you are a co-pilot and your captain quits, odds are they will hire another captain off the street instead of promoting you if you don't have the PIC they want. Often insurance dictates the experience requirements, so the owner's hands are tied.
2) Go regional first and get a few 1000 hours of turbine time, and hopefully 1000 turbine PIC. The advantage here is you have the underlaying base experience for insurance purposes. The downside is that many corporate operators are leary of airline pilots...we basically show up, walk on the airplane, pre-flight, and go. The corporate pilot has many more duties, including flight-planing, cleaning, and customer interaction. It's a different mind-set, and some pilots with the "Airline Stink" have trouble adapting. But if you wanted to do it you could, but you would have to work to break into corporate at the entry level. Be aware that you definately need to be sociable and people-oriented, more so than airlines.
Also corporate is a mixed bag...many operators are shady or downright dangerous, and working conditions and schedules are often poor. The best corporate jobs have pay and QOL approaching the the best (most senior) airline jobs.
Being a corporate pilot I have to totally agree with this post. Its for one all about who you know, two insurance carries the keys to the lock around your ****s and nothing is gauranteed. A very good friend of mine just got laid off from a fortune 500 company flying G V's and Hawker 800's. The thing with corporate is that in bad times the pilots and aircraft are first to go. There are a lot of corporations on the contrary that do provide good pay and QOL. The one thing that I do give the airlines is that in 5 years you know where your going to be. You can look at an airlines past hiring and upgrade events and make an intelligent assumption as to where you will be and what your pay is based off their pay scale. Corporate is here today gone tomorrow so that might be something to think about Widebody.
#50
It's a lot more complicated than 'just go to work for American.' Most majors require PIC time. The ones that don't require it outright will take the guys with PIC time ahead of those without it. And major airlines go years without hiring anybody at all. But equally important is, if you've been with a regional for 5 years, you've got some stability in your life, you're probably getting older and maybe have a family or a serious girlfriend, and you maybe don't want to sacrifice more years of your life to long-term training, reserve, commuting, and the worst schedules. What if you switch to a major airline and then get furloughed? Or what if you jump over to ATA and they go bankrupt?
As a pilot, you get free travel domestically on pretty much every airline there is with the CASS program. This allows you to live outside of your base and commute, and you can also get around when you're off-duty, which is great. Commuting is not a whole lot of fun, though. It's stressful, takes up a lot of time, and you will spend nights sleeping in the crew lounge because you can't afford to get a hotel all the time. I would strongly, strongly recommend that you live in base if you ever decide to be an airline pilot. Particularly on reserve.
As a pilot, you get free travel domestically on pretty much every airline there is with the CASS program. This allows you to live outside of your base and commute, and you can also get around when you're off-duty, which is great. Commuting is not a whole lot of fun, though. It's stressful, takes up a lot of time, and you will spend nights sleeping in the crew lounge because you can't afford to get a hotel all the time. I would strongly, strongly recommend that you live in base if you ever decide to be an airline pilot. Particularly on reserve.
Or...what if the Major Airline you work for shuts down the regional you work at?....ALL can happen and has happened. The regionals work for the Majors.
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