ExperimentalAB

I have to say it...Number one, the search function is crap -have you even used it? And number two, congrats on being "that guy!"

widebodyjunkie

So when airlines furlough pilots, is it usually the rookies that get the boot? If you can pass the first two years within a regional, I wonder if you're in the clear provided that the whole airline doesn't tank.

rickair7777

It's not "usually", it's pretty much "always" the junior guys...airlines use a formal seniority system based on date of hire.

The conventional rule of thumb is that being above the bottom 20% is pretty safe, assuming as you mentioned that the whole airline doesn't shut down.

As to how long that takes, it totally depends on growth and attrition...two years is probably a good average at a regional.

But there are no guarantees.

Led Zep

Depends who you work for. Pay generally is higher on the cargo side. Speaking only for myself, I was making $45k a year as a captain - and that was only 3 years after I left instructing. As far as job security and benefits, that is going to depend on who you work for. If your goal is to build time, I wouldn't worry about benefits. Concentrate on getting your time and moving on.

Depends who you fly for. Night flying isn't for everyone. Then again, neither is getting a wake-up call at 03:30 for your 05:00 show.

widebodyjunkie

So in regards to perdiem's...are they taxed? How does the payment usually work.....does the airline cut you a check at the end of the month after all of your perdiem's hours you worked for that month are added up? In addition, do airlines typically pay for your food while you're on the road, or is that what the perdiem is to be used for??

Go Palin!!

flynavyj

Your "GO Palin" remark almost makes me not feel like replying...but, politics are politics, and typically annoying...so i won't let bygones be bygones.

There are two types of perdiem, Taxable and Non-Taxable. It's odd, say you're doing day trips, the perdiem is taxed,however, if you've left for a 3 day trip, you perdiem isn't taxed.It's all based on where you end up that night, if you end up somewhere that's not your domicile, then you don't pay taxes on it. How it's paid out depends on the company policies, here, we get two checks a month (direct deposited) the 1st is made up of half guarantee. Which equates to 37.5 Hrs for block holders. At first year pay of 22.00/hr you're looking at $825 before taxes . You're second check is made up of the rest of your credit for the month,so, say you credited 90 hrs, the second check will be 90-37.5 = 52.5 Hrs x 22.00 = $1155.00, They then include your perdiem on your check (on the second check) so, say 300hrs away from base which you're getting paid 1.5 for, so, $450 in perdiem. They're then nice enough to take your insurance, uniform payments, and union dues out this check. Not gonna get rich on year one pay, but that's how it breaks down.

As far as getting on with cargo operators after getting your CFI/MEI. Yes, it can be done. Don't expect fedex or UPS, but small cargo outfits are a definite possibility. Some (many) will have questionable maintenance and practices though, but, it does give you very practical experience in real world flying, in Instrument weather. You'll earn your stripes, and most likely be a better pilot for it...or you'll be dead. One or the other.

steak pilot

If you're going to tollerate this job/lifestyle, you have to love to fly. Not just "I think thats what I want to do." But seriously LOVE IT.

Going the cargo part 135 (chrater) route is great experience because it's single pilot, IFR, often multi-engine. However, when applying to majors, they may not like it as much because you have no "Crew" experience, say some gained at a regional.

I'm not sure about the "taxed, non-taxed" perdiem, maybe thats a difference between airlines. All perdiem is taxed. You earn perdiem all the time that you are on duty and away from your base.

Again, some companies may differ, lets say that your monthly gauantee is 75hrs. Your first pay check will be a protion of that (ie; 40 hrs x your wage). The second will be the rest of your gaurantee (35 hrs) plus your perdiem and any time flown over your gaurauntee.

Airlines dont pay for your food, thats all you. Sometimes if you dont have to leave to early in the morning you can catch the hotel breakfast (not likely though).

ImperialxRat

The above posts are all good.

Per diem at the airlines is as mentioned above: If your spending the night away from home it's tax free, and if it's just a day trip then it's taxed.

As far as getting furloughed... I guess two years would have been a good ballpark number. I was at ExpressJet (Jetlink) for 16 months and just got furloughed. If I had gotten on 8 months earlier, I wouldn't have been, so your 2 year formula in this situation would have worked.

Also, when doing your budgeting and financial plan for your airline career, let me be the first to say that you will be innacurate with your plan. When I got hired at Express we were hiring 80/mo, people were sitting on reserve for a month, and were being upgraded in 2 years. About two months after I got hired that came to a screeching halt. I didnt break guarentee once my whole time at Express, and I spent the entire 16 months on reserve.

Such is life, and while it's unfortunate for me, my point is that you can't plan very well for what it will be like when your hired there... so have backup plans.

I had also wanted to go to a "good" regional, so I held out for ExpressJet or SKYW (due to base locations). I canceled my Skywest interview and went to Express... now in hind-sight if I had gone to SKYW, I would still be employed and would probably be closing in on an upgrade in the Brazilia..

Also I had a lot of friends who didn't wait for a good regional and they went to Mesa... They're still employed and are also closing in on upgrade.

Making the right decision in this industry is... well... difficult. Do your reasearch, like you are, and make the best decision for you at the time.

Lastly, being gone for days at a time does wear on you. I imagine at a major it could be fun going to neat international locations, but they're is nothing glorious about overnighting in Beamont, Brownsville, Midland, etc etc. =) Ya make the most of it while your there, and have a few beers if time permits. Just make sure your ready for that... a lot can happen in 4 days to friends and family, especially if you have little ones running around.

And very briefly to your origional regional vs major thread... as mentioned people stay at the regional because they've become comfortable with their salary and quality of life. holding 16 days off a month and making 75k is good for some people. Other people want the "stability" of a major, or to fly bigger aircraft, or to go international. Other people are happy flying a king air to the same 5 airports their whole career. I know I'm giving the extremes here, but I'm just trying to widen your view of aviation.

As everyone says.. If I could get paid 100k / yr to fly a 172 and have job security, I probably would. =)

Enjoy the rollercoaster.

-Travis

Led Zep

Per diem is quite simple. You are payed a fixed amount of money per time away from base. Here is an example using easy, round numbers for simplicity.

Example: your employer pays you $1.00/hr round the clock for each hour you are away from base. This includes both your time on AND off duty. So if your time away from base is 48 hours, then your per diem is going to be $48.00 for that particular trip.

How is taxed? Typically it isn't. The government sets a limit on how much of an allowance can be made for per diem. Anything paid above and beyond this amount is taxed. However, I have yet to encounter earning more per diem than I'm allowed.

Example: Let's say the government allows you up to $10,000.00 in per diem for the year, (again, using a general, round number). Now, let's say your company pays you $8,000.00 in per diem for the year, because they are not obligated to pay you the maximum allowable - that is typically negotiated in contracts. There is a $2,000.00 difference between what you could have earned in per diem. That $2,000.00 difference may be deducted for income tax purposes.

I'm not sure how it works if it goes the other way though. I've never been paid more than the maximum allowed.

Hope this answers your question.

rickair7777

Moderator Input:

Folks, let's leave all the politics out of this. This thread is useful and informative, and I don't want to have to start deleting posts. Please edit out the political references.

Thanks!