You can have it!
 

I am done. You can have your poverty wages and Alpa stickers that lead to... NOTHING!!! I am under the influence of beer, but nevertheless you can have it all. I am done chasing the carrot and sacrificing my life to this cr@p industry. I want a family and I just can't picture myself saying: "Billy you can't go to college because daddy likes to fly and infact he likes it so much that he does it for free" I am trying my luck overseas..I will give it one more shot. Rant over...

Bit of advice
 

Rascal,If you decide to go the foreign flag carrier rte try contacting them directly .
I would try the Asian carriers first.

No offense there Bra, but did you actually research the industry you were getting into, or did you just think that being a pilot was cool and something you wanted to do? The regional industry today is no different than when I started in 1995. I suggest that you due some due diligence of the foreign market too. It's not all like the stories you hear.

Why couldn't your kids go to college? Have you ever heard of an Education IRA or a 529 Plan? Tax-free way to save money for your kids school. Yes the market is horrible right now but these are long-term plans so there is plenty of time to make your gains.

No different than it was in 1995? Are you kidding?

Nope, back then regional managements were nickel and diming their employees, dangling carrots to get contract concessions, taking 5+ years to negotiate contracts, undercutting each other on contracted flying, and in the ultimate "free" flying, requiring PFT. How is that any better than what is going on now? Or do you think that the regional industry prior to 2002-2006 was like that time period?

Education about the history of the industry you work in - the Anti-Drug.

JDMJ's evidently not speaking of the big picture. The regional industry, and more importantly the industry as a whole, is hugely different now. The rapid movement and eventual brass rings for those who paid a few dues are largely a thing of the past. Yeah, mgmt will always try to nickel and dime, that song remains the same. That's their job after all; but the career path and resultant wealth accumulation of the typical pilot (not all, mind you) has taken a dramatic turn for the worse.

Seriously bro ... did you actually know that this was aviation you were getting into ... the most volatile industry in the world, arguably?! There's not a whole lot of pretty things about this place. You do the job because you have a passion and love for flying, and couldn't bare to sit in an Office 9-5 M-F. Yeah, the industry sucks right now, maybe more so than it has in a long time ... but cycles happen, the down periods come and go. I wish you the best of luck with the international aspect of things, and hope things go well for you. As it's been said to me several times before, "the grass always seems greener on the other side".

BYE. Don't let the doorknob hit ya where the good lord split ya. NEXT!

This isn't for the faint of heart. [hat tip]:cool:

Very true." The I can handle a short term period of poverty before things get better" mentality should be a thing of the past. The regional FO position is now a almost a career position.

Just don't come on here and ***** if you go overseas and see your kid 5 days a month.

Wrong. At least there were places to go after you 'paid dues' at the commuters. Oh yeah, Most guys earned a position as an FO at a "regional" back then.

Are you high or did you graduated high school in '95?
Things now are much different at the commuters. For one the introduction of the regional jet and two the mass proliferation of said jet at the commuter level. The commuters have grown more than 3x their orginial size and more commuters that did not exsist before have come into the biz. Since there has been a mass transfer of flying to the commuter level, the stepping stone that the commuters once was to the majors has been dramatically slowed down and in some cases even halted. In '95 you could not get a job much less an interview with 500 hrs, to be competetive is was more like 2000 hrs.
So explain to me how its the same other than working at the commuter level sucks.

I think what he meant was that the regional end of things SUCKED... when I started at a regional carrier in 1992 it sucked.... pay sucked... work rules sucked... oh yea.. and there was little or no movement then either ... i spent 3 years on the bottom of a 1000 person seniority list ..with chance to upgrade...

The regional side of things has seen pockets of good times with fast upgrades and lots of movement... but that has not been the norm.

Oh... and in 1992 when I went to work for Flaghship Airlines ( AE )...I had 1600 hours nearly all ME turbine time...... and I was the LOW man in a class of 18. The more it changes the more it stays the same....

Who said I was going to commute to the US? You guys are all delusional, just because you bend over and take it, it doesn't make me any less of man than the rest of you here...

And you are better than me because your persist thought all this BS and in the end you will better off with your bus driver wages...

Thank you! This is exactly what I meant. Before starting at a regional, I worked as a CFI, flew skydivers, and generally grubbed around FBOs looking to pick up a flight. Had to bust rear just to get a job at a regional than then wanted you to pay for your own training. Thankfully I got around the PFT at ASA. The legacies still had pilots on furlough and were only just recalling and hiring. Upgrade took years.

If anything, I guess most of you are right. It's not the same. The guys entering the industry 2002-2007 had it easier. Straight out of flight school into the right seat of an RJ. Wild growth and SJS. Now that it's time to pay the piper for that growth with contraction, its no longer all fun and games.

Sorry, I guess I have no charity for anyone who enters this profession without understanding that the music was starting to stop and that bad times were coming. Now they're here and the regional guys are going to be in the same turd pile that the legacy guys had to endure 2001-2006. But it will change. The industry will evolve and continue on. The pay will still suck, there will still be whipsawing, and management will still continue to BOHICA the employees, and 10-12 years from now the regionals will be right back in the same state as they are today. Unless cabotage is approved, then we are all hosed.

AT least we are all in this together :), for better or for worse I have so much respect for us, what we do/who we are, we are one of a kind ;)

Ok group hug

Agreed and good luck to you my man.

I hope to follow suit in the future.

Moze na piwko w tym tygodniu jakos? heh

Try retooling your long term goals. Flying "little planes" (words of another regional FO when talking about the fractional/corporate industry) is working well for thousands of aviatiors.
Good Luck!

Achieving such a position depends on a multitude of things...primarily networking, having a minimum of 2500tt w/ 500 hours turbine and an ATP, networking, a strong commitment to customer service, and did I mention networking?

I've never been so happy to fly a jet so slow as I am in the Citation...:D

whaaaaa whaaaaa, boo hoo for you. You are not cut out for this job with your attitude. Go work overseas and when that does not work out you can get a nice office job and sent little Billy to college.

we need more of those around here...

So the people who ARE cut out for this job are the ones who will happily accept the poverty wages we get paid, and who will happily take anything we are offered by management as long as we get to fly a shiny jet? Maybe thats the attitude we should all have.

No crying here. Some treat this as a career and a way to earn a living, and expect to be rewarded for their efforts accordingly. It's not only about the love for flying, you know. If you see nothing wrong with the amount we get paid, then you have a problem. We all know what we were getting ourselves into, but the times have slightly changed since then, and so have future perspectives.

You cannot blame him, or anyone else who wants to leave this industry in the U.S for greener pastures overseas, where being a pilot still has some reward left in it.

I think we can all agree that we need to get paid more. All I am saying is I don't see any reason why anybody can jump/is jumping on Rascal's back for this, the frustration/anger are fully justifiable.

Nope, don't blame him for wanting to leave. If I hated my job and had little hope of improving my situation, I'd leave too. But when that day comes, I'll just leave - I won't come on this or any other forum full of airline pilots and whine to everyone else about how bad things are.

Well to each his own, this is a forum after all, used for discussion, as well as occasional venting to some who may understand.

Exactly, just move on. No need to go out with a bang!

try contract flying overseas....good luck Rascal we all share your pain....I guess

Amen brother.

The Juice - could you post something else - just so I can look at your avatar one more time - OJ what a loser - ha! ha! ha!

Sorry, okay back to the regularly scheduled thread...

Broken records just skipping and skipping and skipping...ect.
On this forum, if anybody comments negatively on the state of the industry, he/she is blasted by the same broken records about doing their homework, "paying dues", "just be glad you weren't here when..." ect. Bottom line, the cheerleaders will always slam anybody who thinks about throwing in the towel for a more suitable job. I love my new job (non-aviation). I left the industry and still fly several times a week. I love flying, that will never waiver. The jet was fun for about a year. The industry was not what I wanted. I did my homework and knew what I was getting into.

Guess what? I didn't want it after trying it. Is that a #@$%%# crime around here? My suspicion is that I share this opinion with several others. Problem is that around here if you say so, you will be put down with harsh words, mostly by the same smugsters. You know who you are.

what industry are you in now?

[quote=dozer;477758]Very true." The I can handle a short term period of poverty before things get better" mentality should be a thing of the past. The regional FO position is now a almost a career position.[/quote]


Ding, Ding, Ding,.... we have a winner.

And this is why we really need some new blood in ALPA, to get things going towards better contracts, with some type of section/clause that would prevent one ALPA carrier from being whipsawed by another ALPA carrier.... a kind of contract protection clause.

It's also why people need to stop thinking of regionals as stepping stones to major airlines.... because those days are all but gone. Look at midwest; being outsourced to a regional.... the exact scenario that major airline pilot unions were worried about IS happening. If we don't stand together, this trend will continue and we will all be worse off.

2008 payscales in 1995 dollars:

A newhire FO would be making around $10,500 a year flying a 50-seat jet.
A sixth-year FO would be making $19,000 a year flying a 76-seat jet, or $8,000 a year to fly a 32-seat T-prop.

Were the pay scales that bad in 1995, or would you say things have stayed the same or improved?

Just curious where you got those numbers from.

By my calculations $10,500 in 1995 equals $14,159.17 today
$19,000 in 1995 equals $25,621.36 today.

The Inflation Calculator

Threads like these really make me appreciate my corporate job :D

I was using inflation numbers from the USAToday on my hotel doorstop.
I'd trust your numbers way more than mine. :D

What I can't figure out is why people are under the belief that it is their responsibility to pay for their kids education. My parents didn't have the money for that so I paid my own way. I had part time jobs and waited until after 4 years in the military to go to college. Didn't get one dime from my parents.

jrmyl

Because that is something you do for your children if you can afford to do it. It gives them a headstart in life without having the burdon of educational debt. It isn't a case of who's responsibility it is, it's a case of can you reasonably afford to do it.

Not to be too blunt, but when it comes to providing an education for your kids, but some folks can't and some folks can; those that can typically do.