Here is how I think it went. The older guys that voted No, voted out of fear of losing their jobs or they 'think' PBS is going to be better for them. The newer guys that have never worked in a corporation before, listened to our leadership (ALPA) who are our elected officials who told them to vote for the TA. Sure I think a lot of the naive people believed ALPA when they said we will get it ALL next time. Then there was the camp that though it's better than what have we now so lets just do it.

Our ALPA leaders did a pretty good sales job on this whole thing. However the truth of the pudding will be in the eating. You can't tell me the ALPA strategy will not work. What would happen in 2 or 3 years time if we did get industry leading contracts for those 6 carriers? Would you still criticise Mesa guys for being bottom feeders for their 08 contract or commend our ALPA leadership in their negotiating strategy?

Yeah okay I know it is a big 'what if' scenario but give the slagging off a break. ALPA acted in what they believe is our best interests, the people that voted yes did so because they truly believed it was the right thing to do. Nobody in the Mesa pilot group voted for this TA with the logic "if I vote for this TA then I will continue to be underpaid thus Mesa's operating costs can be the lowest in the industry and JO can steal contracts from the noses of other more expensive regional carriers."

It was a yes vote because the majority of Mesa pilots believed it to be the best contract we can get right now. End of story.

Quote from BURflyer, "Mesa has had absolutely no problem working with a bottom feeding contract while most other airlines have had block or better, duty rigs, better work rules. All while lying to everyone that they had a happy workforce and one of the highest paid CRJ pilots."

No we suffered through this crap because we were able to recapture the Freedom A listers and integrate them on to one pilot seniority list, not to mention have language in that crappy cba to prevent our management from ever creating an alter ego airline.

From the current contract Section 1 Paragraph B: Scope

The company shall not create or acquire an "alter ego" to avoid the terms and conditions of this agreement!

Thats straight from the CBA. Hopefully the TSA guys will be able to do the same without the sacrifice, and hopefully BURflyer it happens soon! Maybe that will humble you.

None of this is an excuse for what happened today, it should have defeated hands down.

I don't want to get into it, it's no use. look at the past GJ threads if you need some satisfaction. As I've stated before I play the game, I don't make the rules. We have no control over management other than the form of a TA vote to actually change anything. GJ is a job, just like any other, there are worse things that actually affect people than GJ. Whining on these threads about past management actions aren't going to help you accomplish anything. You can't make someone not take a job but you can help them better their profession.

You are a walking contradiction.

Agreed.

What is worse I talked to 2 of my ground school class mates in the 'NO' camp that never voted. I wonder what the true majority of the Mesa pilots thought?

Is there anything us 'no' voters can do or should be doing other than wear pointless 'I'm in the 400 club' stickers?

Don't get me wrong about the stickers they would be amusing but still quite pointless for reasons stated earlier in this thread.

Of course you don't want to discuss it BURflyer. Hell you have to try and beat up on Mesa pilots for putting a stop on scum sucking undercutters like you and when you get caught, the only defense you have is to start insulting Riddle.

At least Mesa pilots aren't embarrassed to show their badges.

I'll laugh hard the day that Hulas decides to whipsaw you guys. Enjoy that right seat in that shiny CRJ. You're going to be there a while.

I may have a few of my 'No dues for Hughes' stickers lying around still...The more things change the more they remain the same. :(

There is NOTHING that affects TSAALPA's negotiating power than the fact that people are willing to go to GJ.


What about when not taking the job helps their profession?

(change your position under your avatar)

Maybe he means his soul...:cool:

People will go to whom ever is hiring, no one except for you look at union contract negotiations to determine where to go. Except for the hand full of the 05 guys some of whom have moved on, most are union supporters at GJ, they like the place and it isn't any worse than any other regional. Most have nothing to do with TSA 05 and frankly do not care. You're talking about something that is meaningless and won't get you anywhere. If what you are saying is true that GJ is willing to fly cheaper and are hampering your negotiations, then Hulas would have transfered all of TSA to GJ yesterday. GJ is separate from TSA, separate union and separate contract. Instead of hating, do something constructive like trying to gain some positive relation with your management. There is something seriously wrong when it takes almost 3 years to negotiate a crappy regional contract, you might want to hire the Mesa mec to speed things along.:rolleyes:

Perhaps you forgot that they had GJ mechanics doing pre-buys on CRJ-200s in the desert not too long ago. The only reason Hulas DIDN'T transfer all the flying to GJ is that getting the -200s up and running would have cost him too much. You think THAT isn't going to come up in negotiations? You bet your ass all our union guys are going to hear is "Well, if you want a pay raise, maybe it won't be so costly to get those -200s for gojet after all"

Nothing out there hobbles the TSA pilot group's negotiating power as much as the pseudo-scabs at GJ willing to do our jobs for less. Period.

Only BURFlyer could turn a Mesa thread into a thread about his beloved GJ. Disgusting. Keep walking with your badge turned around and your head hung down...pathetic.

Stock's up 9% this morning. Way to go.

LAMA guy here. This is a great idea and the only way to prove how, in fact, you voted. I did this when I voted "NO" on the previous contract. I then made my own bag tags. Front side with my name, phone #, etc. Back side was the "I am AGAINST the tentative agreement..." statement in RED. Laminated it and put it on my bags. Anyone who said they voted no, I asked them for proof. You couldn't provide it, I didn't believe you- simple. I suggest you do the same. It is AMAZING how only 2 or 3 guys/gals out of everyone that I talked to voted YES... you will probably find the same.

Good luck for the next 4 years (length of new contract + negotiating time for a new one)...I think you guys will need it. Wow, a NEW low :(

All I can say is.......wow.....

Have that reciept with you at all times. Just might need it to get in a jumpseat. embarrasing guys just embarrasing!

[quote=jeff122670;515693]I don't work for MESA (military guy) but I have followed this TA very closely...It's kept my attention of what the industry is turning into. For those 400 who voted no - It's a pleasure sharing the skies above FL180 with you. For those who voted yes - don't fly too close to those warning areas.[/quote

Can your sophisticated radar detect "noes" and "yeses" or should we duct tape "N" or "Y" on the fuselage?

The MAG pilot group has faced one of the most adversarial management establishments in the nation. In the past they have successfully ended an non-union in-house alter ego and fended off an attempted crossover into mainline flying. The new agreement contains key pay and work improvements for pilots. Who, since 2001, has won big pay raises or time-off increases?

The Dash Whisperer

Yea but whats 9% of nothing anyway? :D

Seriously though, Someone said they were not going to be delisted but someone else keeps saying they are on the 18th. Whats the deal?

i didnt threathen anyone...i was just trying to bring some humor into this forum.....just trying to be a champion to the Mesa 400...

Seems like we as pilots (myself included) come across as more juvenile then professional sometimes. Is it because some have never learned to converse outside the cockpit? Just a thought

the NYSE has postponed all delistings until the economy recovers. Mesa is traded on the NASDAQ and they havent said much. Basically Mesa can and will appeal the decision and it will get dragged out. No one knows how long but the bad economy will be playing towards Mesa's case.

Heres an article about another company that was facing delisting and how it works. Delisting Detailed: What It Takes to Get the Boot From an Exchange | Dear Dagen | Financial Articles & Investments News | TheStreet.com

""The company(NOT MESA) is working cooperatively with the Nasdaq staff and will request a hearing with the Nasdaq Listing Qualifications Panel. As a result of this hearing, any action by the Nasdaq to delist the Company's common stock will be stayed pending a decision by the Nasdaq Listing Qualifications Panel," the release says."

I wish I had some NO MESA and NO JO stickers left over from AERO2003

Seriously, can we please ignore this guy? He's tried desperately and failed at making a coherent argument and now I'm pretty convinced he's just trying to annoy everyone. Let him say what he wants but ignore it and keep on subject.

Some of these posts are getting a little out of hand. Keeping your ballot receipt with you at all times? That's just silly. This was a democratic process and although I don't agree with the majority on this one, they were the majority and we need to respect that. It is absurd to think someone would deny a fellow pilot a jumpseat based on how they voted. Are we professionals or vengeful poor losers? What's done is done and we need to look forward to the next battle. Stickers are a non-intrusive and light hearted way of making a statement and I see nothing wrong with those, but to deny a jumpseat or otherwise disrespect someone based on how they voted in a democratic vote is anti-democratic and unprofessional. Do I think those who voted yes, made the right choice? No. Do I think they deserve to be punished for it? No, not at all. I'll continue to try to make this place a decent place to work as long as I'm here and will be even more vocal about key issues during the next round of negotiations, but for now let's stay professional and respect the decision.

I echo the sentiments of turbofan, Winglet and others. Some of us within and without Mesa are disappointed at the result, but that is democracy. The thing I find most disappointing is the high number of non-voters.

Talk of denying jumpseats and other punishments keeps pilots at each other's throats. While we fight each other, the Man laughs.

In discussing the TA with my fellow MAG pilots a few themes repeated. Some felt that it was a pretty good deal for the times we are in. Others felt the lack of percentage pay raises required rejection. Many were skeptical that the company would abide by the language concerning scheduling and felt the TA left them too much wriggle room. I completely understand how most of the pilots who have been here awhile feel the company has completely broken their trust. The close vote on the TA reflects this.

Hopefully in six months all of us will look back and say that the new contract has brought at least some improvement.

The Dash Whisperer

Having worked for Mesa in the past, this does not surprise me one bit. The MAG ALPA MEC has done it again --> dropped the ball. The first proposal was rejected before it was even sent to the pilot group. The MEC then decided to take it back to the company to try to "sweeten the pot":rolleyes:. They conducted numerous road shows with their propoganda stating PBS will be a good thing for all, regardless of the language (or lack there of). Ignorant junior captains and desperate FOs saw 11 days off for line holders / reserves and a 2% raise for FOs starting in January 2010 (only equates to ~50-60 cent raise) and began to salivate at the mouth. The MAG MEC stated, "Our MEC and management are in agreement and you will just have to trust them{company} regarding the language." Trust the company...then why do they need a union, let alone alpa. Unfortunately, those junior captains and FOs will soon learn that the MAG MEC once again let them down as downgrades will begin in Jan-Feb and more furloughs soon after. For those 400 that voted no, keep fighting the good fight. For those 418 or so that voted yes, be sure to sport your "I was once again dooped by the MAG MEC" sticker! And for those ~200 pilots that did not vote have no right to complain!:mad:

The no shows weren't against the TA otherwise they would have voted, they only had like two weeks to make up their mimd. So I think it's fair to say the pilot group wasn't that divided considering 20% didn't vote and the other half and change voted for the TA. Troubling.

I strongly encourage everyone to take BURflyer's advice and search HIS past GoJet threads. Pre-4 months ago, all he did was continually bash Gojet's pilots. They were the scum of the earth in his eyes. Brining down the industry. When he got furloughed HE THEN APPLIED TO GOJET. When people called him on it he changed the subject REALLY quick. Or ignored them.

HYPOCRITE

I WOULD BET MY CAREER EARNINGS THAT A HYPOCRITE SUCH AS THIS ALSO APPLIED TO MESA AND WOULD BE THERE HAD GOJET NOT HIRED HIM FIRST.

Burflyer stop throwing stones. You have a severe inferiority complex. Something that needs professional attention to cure you, not bashing others on an anonymous internet board.

Why does he shift blame to mesa? It's really quite simple he is embarassed by who he works for. If he can make somenone else look worse than himself then perhaps he can feel better about his situation.

I don't care who a guy works for it's really quite childish all the bottom feeder this and bottom feeder that on these forums. What other industries are like this? Ofttimes as pilots we act like a bunch of hyena's fighting over scraps that the lions left behind seriously wake up people. Until everyone is united then "the market will bare what the market can bear."

Final thought has anyone ever thought maybe alpa prefers to have lower paid regionals. Thinking that somehow it allows the legacy guys to get paid more off the backs of the RJ drivers.:eek:

Off topic personal attacks. Thread closed.