Boyd's been saying this same crap since 9/11. If they keep saying it enough it'll eventually be right. Props are dying and being replaced by RJ's more completely. Small RJ's are being replaced by "big" RJ's, but here we have an issue over what actually constitutes an RJ as these planes are blurring the lines. A 175 isn't much of an RJ, it can fly across most of the country. Is it short hops that makes the RJ? No... there are plenty of aircraft like 737's and A320's that do SAN/LAX or BOS/LGA. BOS/LGA is only a 35 minute flight.

On the other hand, there are RJ's doing flights that traverse the country. IND/MIA. PIA/DFW.

Not only is Boyd wrong, their analysis is does not reflect the shift in the industry.

What it should reflect is the reduction in the smallest and oldest RJ aircraft to be replaced with larger RJ aircraft and a shrinking and possible consolidation of regional carriers.

Don't worry if you can't understand it. I know its challenging. Many before you have thought code was a free for all too that belonged to airline management. And sometimes, in the case of non union shops, or those union shops with inadequate scope language, maybe it is. But in other cases, a pilot group absolutely does own and control the code. DL code is owned by the DALPA PWA. Period.

I'll make it super easy for you.

1. Attempt, even as DL management, even as a DL shareholder, even as a DL BoD member, to fly DL code outside what the DALPA PWA permits you to do.

2. See what happens.

What does that even mean?

Are you talking like which Flight Attendants they hire? Or how many planes they paint pink during October? You're getting really esoteric here. We are a pilot's union, therefore we only concern ourselves with pilot stuff. I guess the company can decide to pull out of a profitable market without our permission or something. Is what what you're trying to get at? Actually, even then that may or may not be allowed such as in cases of certain international agreements, or even agreements with regionals. We have absolutely no say on what brand of peanuts they serve though, so if that's what you mean, you're right about that.

I'm just referring to what pilots they use to actually fly the code. Its us, always, unless its part of our permitted exceptions. When DL code gets put on a flight, we own it, unless we have allowed to include it in a specific exception. I guess if they put the code on a line of SuperFake Rolex's on Canal Street, there wouldn't be much we could do about that, so you may have a point here. But if they want to fly the code, they have to come to us.

Actually there IS quite a few restrictions in the DALPA PWA that places restrictions on the code share partners and what DL mgmt can do. Stage lengths, percentages/ratios of flying, hub to hub flying, aircraft sizes, weights and numbers etc etc etc.

So the pilots don't control marketing, snack selection or which regionals fly what markets? Um, ok.

Actually we do have more control over the regional system than you allude to. Things such as the CPZ flow/bump and flush coupled with seat pull down if we furlough absolutely does have some level of control. So do our restrictions on the operation of non permitted types as well as how we deal with the "separate certificate trick" attempts to circumvent them. We also have controls on stage lengths and hub to hub flying, which does control who flies where on what.

To any extent that the company is free to pick and choose which regional in their "portfolio/armada" that is only because that particular flying is specifically exempted in our scope clause, which otherwise would have controlled that, too. Yes, we choose to allow some outsourcing, and within the constraints of that, the company is free to bounce around.

Its still our code though. We still control it. As far as a pilot group is concerned, there is no other function we care about other than control of who flies the code. If there was, we wouldn't have that stupid 45 degree canted oversized logo on the tail like everyone else, but on the other hand we'd probably still have the ugly snoopy nose paint job, so I'll call that one a wash.

If we controlled FA uniforms, we probably wouldn't have mandated purple either. IMO replacing Blue Diamond Smoked Almonds would be a step above the peanuts, but again, we don't concern ourselves with such things, and we don't control the snack code, just the flying code.

For that matter, they can pretend to operate other airlines within an airline if they want to. They are free to take part of the fleet, paint it green with a logo that looks like it was from the free section of a public use logo sight, give the FA's different uniforms, eliminate first class and call it some ridiculous name. But since we own the code as far as who flies it, we'd still be the ones to fly it IAW our PWA/CBA.

But you are right in that they can change the napkins at any time. We are powerless to stop them, as we don't own the napkin code. We only own the flying code, which is all we really care about anyway.

50% of FEED? where is the rest coming from?

You are right and wrong. Wrong in the since that mainline dropped the ball by not maintaining control of who gets hired like they do at the mainline. I am sure you would agree the regionals were never meant to be like this. You can read about all the hard work from the beginning to present mainline pilots did from Flying The Line. Without all that hard work there probably would not be any difference between flying at a mainline or regional. Unfortunately by turning your backs on the regionals to fend for themselves its turned into a playground for management. Heck DAL pilots even had to change their rule about all flying will be done by a DAL pilot on DAL owned equipment. Regardless of mainline or regional the public only knows and cares about what they pay and see on their tickets and what's on the side of the plane. (Didn't you read or see the "fine" print?) As much as you (mainline pilots) cares about your product and people that get hired at mainline then you should have the same care for any equipment that is being operated with your companies name on it. There should be no difference between mainline pilots or regional pilots. In essence there isn't except for pay and benefits. Because of greed and I don't care they're regionals. It isn't going to change anytime soon.

There's more to it than greed. Not to mention greed works both ways, but that's another discussion. I'll just say that for things to change on the regional end, fantasy seniority grabs will have to be forsaken from the very beginning of the discussion in order for there to ever be a discussion. That doesn't mean it would then happen, but its a necessary precondition, and the egos and greed on the other side of it are strong indeed. (One person's moot point is another person's self fulfilling prophecy, and we may never know). I agree that it likely won't completely change, but at the moment it is changing a lot, mostly for the better (again, for now).

It still surprises me how emotionally raw and entitled some can get about the morality of "flying XYZ Airline's passengers" or whatever. Some regionals fly for every major. What about them? Alaska flies DL passengers, what about them? Some regionals fly Air France and British Airways passengers, what about them? Answer: a contract is a contract, and you either own the code or you don't.

And yet you know I'm right.

This has gone on way too many pages for it to really be about the esoteric minutia of it all. You know I'm not claiming that the pilot group totally and completely runs every single aspect of an airline, its marketing, logistics and every single element of its operation. I've said as much a bazillion times in this hilarious thread. We just own the code, 100%, for the purpose of who flies it. We then allow exceptions (and in my opinion to many, but I digress).

You've flailed around accusing me of being a ALPA worshipper (and I sincerely appreciated the laugh) despite me pointing out that SWAPA has better control of their code than we do and APA has similar, etc.

The fact remains, the only aspect about the code that is even relevant in any respect to a pilot is who flies it. WRT us, we do, period. We own it.

But then again, you knew that. So I'm still not sure what your point even is.

Yeah yeah I know, its some secret profundity, which you can't reveal because you're too intellectually advanced that no one would understand it anyway, and besides you're to busy getting another Fields Medal in quantum airline theory to bother in the first place. So there's that. :cool:

NAI should be the biggest concern for most.:confused:

Its absolutely a major concern. Those dirt bags need to be kept away at all costs.