P.S. why should we paid more when we are no longer actually doing anything?? Can you believe Joe Q. Public thinks that we aren't even allowed to fly, that all we do is watch the Autopilot? How did we get here...

 

EXACTLY!

I don't think pilots are underpaid at all. As long as there are lines of pilots, stacks of pilot resumes, and people just dying to get hired to fly a jet for literally unemployment insurance wages, you can't be considered underpaid because you are WILLINGLY accepting that job.

It cracks me up to see people here blaming <insert your favorite regional carrier - GoJet, Mesa, Lakes, Republic, ASA, Comair, Mesaba, etc> for all the wrongs in this industry.

I don't blame any carrier for this. I blame each and every one of us for entering such a ******ed up career field where your experience doesn't matter one iota - only your date of hire at that particular carrier. I blame our ENTIRE seniority-based system for our problems because it is being used against us and is keeping us down. I blame ALPA leadership for not going on a campaign to KEEP PEOPLE AWAY FROM THIS INDUSTRY, i.e. control the supply and demand. Supply goes down, demand goes up, pay goes up type-a-thing. I blame the typical US pilot mentality that made us the Chinese/Vietnamese sweat shop workers equivalent in aviation. I blame the fake sympathy amongst our ranks for others - take an example of a Republic pilot who just got recalled to fly the Midwest flying. Is that pilot gonna admit that he's happy to have a job? Hell no, that would make him be the target of all the self-righteous a**holes on this board. Instead, that pilot is gonna say how the whole situation is ******ed up and how he doesn't want that, but silently he's gonna mutter - HELL YEAH!!! I'm not furloughed anymore! I'm flying! It's the hypocrisy at its finest, and that's prevalent among ALL pilots.

You can argue all you want, you can tell me I'm full of sh*t, I really don't care. Deep down, you all know I'm right. Hell, I know I'm right, and I also know I'm guilty of the same behavior. However, unlike the most, I know where the blame lies, and it's not with GoJet or Mesa or Delta.

 

Aviator, can anybody in good faith actually tell someone to not follow their dream?? Dude that boggles my mind because I sure can't. Let's educate, not squash the next generation.

 

Yes! [FONT='Calibri','sans-serif']ExperimentalAB your right on! Education of the next generation is key! ALPA or APA or any pilot union should work with AOPA or aviation universities and flight schools. Pilot unions should be working with the FAA to control the commercial or ATP licensing to give instill value to a commercial certificate. If you can stop a traffic or banner pilots from flying for free then you raise the cost of a pilot across the board.[/FONT]

Pilots just don’t get it. You can put a new roof on a bad house. Major airline pilots are trying for the best contracts until the company gets it all back and more during bankruptcy. Let’s start back at the basic and build a strong foundation.

 

Not in this country, and that's just it. It's an ethical dilemma. If you allow every Tom, Dick and Harry to "follow their dream", the opportunity cost of that is the downward pressure on wages, career expectations, work rules, retirement, you name it.

Tom has a dream to fly, but is he willing to spend $80,000 on ratings and college education only to be in debt for most of his life and not have any ability to pay off that debt for years to come or provide for his family in the face of this debt? Why not educate Tom on the realities of this profession such as the seniority system and the dangers of it, on pay cuts, on stand-ups, on 16 hour duty days for less than $100 of pay for that day. He might say... oh man, I think I'd rather go become an accountant and earn enough money to buy my own plane and fly for fun instead.

Dick might be a burnout from his previous career, but always wanted to fly for a living. Present the same things to him - no sugarcoating. Tell him how it is. Tell him about how much debt he'll have to incur just to get into a position that pays barely above minimum wage, and see if he still wants to do it.

Harry might say to hell with it all, I want it even if I pay them to fly their jets!

But hey, now you got to educate 3 guys BEFORE they entered this industry, BEFORE they feel like they have a vested interest in seeing it through no matter what... Now you might have saved 2 guys from becoming bitter later on and who might actually make way more money outside of aviation and fly for fun. You're also starting to reduce the supply of pilots willing to work for sh*t wages.

Pick up any aviation magazine... and you'll STILL see ads for puppy mills like ATP or the CRJ Transition Program. You won't see SQUAT about the downsides of this career. NO EDUCATION ON THE DOWNSIDES - only the WOOHOO's! Unfortunately, the education happens after you get burned, and in most cases, it's unfortunately too late for everyone.

You are absolutely right - EDUCATION is the key, but BEFORE you get burned. If you still want in, buyer beware.

 

The regional pilot is a high interest loan the legacy carriers do not believe they will ever have to repay. Let's face it the majority of folks learning to fly in this country are not Americans. They get their training and leave. School/college loans are getting tighter to aquire for the prospective carreer pilot. Also, the possibility of repayment within a reasonable time frame is dashed by relatively no monetary movement upward for a regional pilot. To sum it up,,, we will be facing a pilot shortage and very few (except for those of us with the serious flying bug) will be willing to pay the price.
The regional ranks will stagnate, the pilot group will shrink, current regional 121 pilots will get tired of the minimal compensation... Supply and demand will kick in. The mainline carriers will be forced to pay more eventually. I think their response will be "maybe we should get bigger planes if we have to pay them so much" The regional 70 seat airframe will go away except for what they were designed for... short legs into relatively small airports.

 

Its much more simple than saying who to blame and who not to blame and voo doo economics and all the other philosophical reasons. The reason we are treated like we are is because its a job we still want to show up to. If it really was that bad of a job, more people would quit for something else. For all of those who are still flying and complaining, please come with me to work for a day. You want to see what its like to be treated like crap? Spend a day as an inner city substitute teacher. Anybody who wants to trade the right seat for the teachers desk, PM me because I want to make 20k a year again. No one was ever forced to be an airline pilot. Its a career we've all CHOSEN. If you got into this racket for the money or anything other than flying an airplane, you are the fool.

 

It's free market capitalism. Pilots are funny. They are right-wing conservatives until they look at their paycheck then turn into purebred socialists dreaming of the days before deregulation and strong unions.

 

HIt the nail on the head...I've worked in sales jobs where your own effort determines your pay. it's called performance.. pilots are hourly workers...if you look at the numbers(pay) Blue collar hourly workers..

it is laughable when someone starts this debate...if you want to follow your dream fine, but don't be niave or whine, just have an boatload of cash stashed somewhere drawing compound interest.

unless you have actually run a business or played chess, then you don't understand the value of a pawn...

 

What is really laughable is when the pawns blame each other for losing the game.