Colgan/Bombardier Law Suit
 

Airlines, plane maker sued over crash near Buffalo - Yahoo! News

Very sad that this happening. The OFFICIAL cause hasn't been determined, and people are already jumping to conclusions. Very sad for the family of both the crew, and pax.

I hate to say it but if my family was on that plane, I can't say I wouldn't be wanting to hold someone accountable (pending cause) This airplane does not have a great safety record and these Pilots, as well as Colgan's training will be thoroughly examined.

I don't know what caused this crash but if it is either the Pilot's doing, or the Airplanes the LAWSUITS will fly and they will be successful in court/ or have very large settlements......

I flew a lot of the victims families from BUF-EWR yesterday and it was so sad they were a mess, I can't say I blame them for wanting some answers, and unfortunately filing a lawsuit is one of the ways people get what they feel they need to be properly "made whole".

I love it how they always manage to say "thee lawyer, who is also a pilot..." as though a lawyer who happens to have a PPL and 200 hours on a Bonanza is qualified to make statemets about airline ops.:rolleyes:

I guess all he'd need to be qualified is the CPL and 250 hrs. Anyway, poor taste, sorry. I'm with SAAB on this one. Probably pretty standard procedure nowadays in any accident, not just aviation. Sorry for the families involved, and hope the investigation is able to prevent anything similar.

Lawyer/pilot
 

Two records came up for Ronald Goldman in a search of the FAA pilot database. Both private pilots. They may not have been him, but that is what I found.

wasn't this the guys name who was killed by OJ????????/

This will certainly not be the last as I would assume that the majority of those onboard will eventually sue as it will be guaranteed money. This is a blanket law suit where they will go after all of the high rollers to ensure the most amount of money knowing that in time only 1 or so of the defendants will actually be found liable.

on a side note...notice the embraer tail in the photo?

I won't dispute that Colgan treats it's crewmembers like crap, and that a review of their training and maintenance program is definitely in order. However, I still know some people who fly the Q400 for Horizon, and they say it's a great airplane, as is the entire Dash-8 series. As I recall, this is the first fatal accident for the Q400 model, and the only other incidents I've heard of were the gear problems that SAS had in Europe with theirs. I thought I read somewhere that those incidents had more to do with the SAS maintenance program than anything with the aircraft. We don't even know for sure that it was a problem with the aircraft that caused the crash. I feel for the families, and I would want answers too, but they really should change the laws so that no one can file any sort of lawsuit until the NTSB concludes the investigation and releases a probable cause. Even then, the lawsuit should be limited to the party/parties identified by the NTSB as being directly responsible. If the accident is caused by a freak event of nature (i.e, US Air in the Hudson due to birds,) then no lawsuit may be filed at all, regardless of injuries sustained or fatalities.

They're just filing. The actual trial will probably take place maybe a year from now when they have their facts straight. There is no jury that would give them any major compensation without knowing what happened.

I agree, the Q400 is flown into places where I would imagine moderate ICE is the norm..........

This is no surprise to me.

Sure does. The Q400 had its problems, but most of it was pre-flight issue. ALT-Ctrl-Delete fixed it most of the time. If flew it for almost two years at Horizon and it was one yeck of a plane

I suppose the premise of their argument, in filing, would be that the passengers had a "right" to make it to the destination unscathed. Airplanes do crash, this isn't the first, nor will it be the last. Loss of life is always tragic, no matter the capacity, but it does happen - and last time I checked the mortality rate was still 100% although causes vary. I say, bad form from the families that are filing (at least right now). (And yes, I have lost loved ones in tragic accidents)

Its CTRL-ALT-Delete :D

agreed.....

At the end of the day,the autopilot usage into known icing, is the fly in the ointment.

The lawyer, if it is the same Ronald Goldman, has been an lawyer since 1963, and specialized in aviation law since 1969. He is a partner in Baum, Hedlund, Aristei and Goldman. He has had many high profile cases, he even served on the Plaintiff's Executive Committee for the 9/11 cases. He was a layer on the Air Midwest 5481 crash in 2003.
He became a private pilot in 1980, not sure how many hours he has.

Remember, you can sue AND win for spilling coffee on yourself. The only crime? A business using hot water to make coffee.

He may not be able to make qualified statements about airline ops, but I'm guessing he can produce very credible witnesses who can. It's not his flying abilities that win lawsuits, it's his experience and expertise as an attorney.

Do y'all actually think there is any real justice involved? As some have eluded to, it is simply a matter of who plays the game better...

Have a question for horizon pilots that fly the Q400. Have you ever noticed any handling or control issues when flying in the ice. I know from flying in the northwest that ice is encountered on a regular basis.

just closed on a house where my lawyer and the sellers lawyer got into an argument over a $15 dollar wire transfer fee that one of their secretaries forgot. They played it off like they were the nicest guys ever... bring money into the picture and all of a sudden they flip into this money hungry monster.

Unfortunately insurance will either have to go up or the court system will have to change.... guess which one i think will happen?

I think we gotta be kind of mindful of what these families are going through. If you feel strongly that a lawsuit in an accident like this is unreasonable, or that the court system in the U.S. ought to change- I'd really suggest you at least try to put yourself in their place before judging them too harshly. In the U.S. we are lucky, in my opinion, that we have the access to the legal system that we do. Of course it has faults, but the beauty of our system is that it is accessible to all, and hopefully frivolous attempts to "milk" the system are exposed in time. I think most are- and you never hear about them. You only hear about the cases that are sensational because they are a mockery of the legal system. I do not think it's wise to compare any fatal transportation accident to the "hot coffee" scandal. Like I said earlier, I'd guess that in most fatal accidents there's going to be lawsuits- from car accidents to large disasters, that's why corporations are expected to insure themselves. Lost loved ones, lost wages, the possibility of negligence in accidental death, all these things are linked together. In the military, if one is killed, one's beneficiaries receive a financial settlement, that's not wrong is it? I understand that in the end lawsuits cost us all in one way or another, but I have to wonder if there is an alternative that still addresses the needs of accident victims better than what we have. I don't think there is. Anyway, I'm not a lawyer, but I am a fan of our freedoms as U.S. citizens. Just my two cents.

I look at it this way: they are paying attention to details, including the small ones. If the small stuff is being scrutinized then the big stuff probably is as well. Ultimately, the buyer and/or seller is responsible for that fee. This shows me the lawyers are looking out for the interest of their clients. If I were being represented, I would want my attorney paying close attention to every detail.

It would not suprise me if some lawyers contacted the families not too long after the accident - informing them of their "rights".

I asked my Lawyer about that She said its #1 illegal and #2 only the scum of the scum would do that.

She also said everyone hates Lawyers until they need one :)

The $100,000 Death Gratuity is, I am sure, a whole lot less than what this case is seeking.

I presume that since you feel the Q has a poor safety record, you won't be jumpseating on one. Ever.

Also, I guess if ever you are involved in an accident, you won't mind getting sued.

It was at $400,000 last time I checked my SGLI stuff. But I hear ya.

Were you expecting that no one would file suit, among all of the survivors of those killed in the accident?

Actually, they are barred from doing that by New York statute, for 45 days after the accident.

In all likelihood, the finding will be that the autopilot or the icing had little or nothing to do with it. This is an example of people of have never flown the airplane--or any transport category airplane for that matter--hearing something to do with a prohibition against use of the autopilot in icing and jumping to a totally erroneous conclusion.

If you let an airplane--any airplane--get to slow on an approach, whether you have the autopilot on or not (although having it on would make it easier for this to happen) would not be the cause of a stall/spin accident.

The Q-400 has a good safety record. The Colgan crash was the first fatal crash of the type.

As to the lawsuits, this is how the system works. When aircraft crash, the survivors must avail themselves of the legal system to obtain compensation for their loss. So people should stop acting surprised when surviving spouses and other dependents, heirs and family members file suit after an airline crash.

It seems like in our society that you're not a "real man" until you sue somebody. I think that if someone commits a criminal act that causes someone else harm, then by all means go ahead and sue. But if it's an "Act of GOD" or an accident then that's different (it should then just be treated like an insurance case). And yes, I have known people who have "milked the system" in frivolous cases (and they are not famous). Given that the rest of us pay for all of this in the long run, it frustrates me that we can't seem to think of anything really evil to do to these greedy leeches!

Droog, I don't know the answer. Your points are valid, to me at least. I agree with you about "Acts of God", but honestly don't know any legal details on that subject. In the case of blatant negligence in accidents of any type, I have to believe that the ability to be financially responsible when the worst happens is what tends to keep corporations on their toes, so to speak.
My feelings on the issue are not personal, I've never sued anyone. I also do not feel qualified to judge a family going through something like this.

I do believe strongly that our legal system is in some ways, like aviation. You only hear about the bad events.

What's the answer? No clue. I tend to believe that our system, while flawed, is pretty good compared to what citizens of some other countries have. I also believe that in the long run, maybe too much freedom is better than too little.

I am assuming that by "...these greedy leeches" you are referring to the attorneys of the personal injury bar, and not the aggrieved survivors of the accident victims. But that misses the point.

The lawyers file lawsuits on behalf of the victims. That is how the tort system works. The survivors have a right to seek redress for their loss, and the civil litigation system is the mechanism we use.

I was only describing how the system would work in my ideal world. I understand that this is different from reality. As far as the "greedy leeches" are concerned, I was not refering to the Colgan victims' families per se. Rather, I was refering to anyone who files frivolous claims in order to make easy money. I also understand the role of lawyers. I just have a problem with the ones who seem to arrive on the scene of an accident before the emergency personnel and exploit the "pain and suffering" for personal gain. This greed and silliness is taken to the nth degree, and we all pay a price in the end.

I fly the Q in Europe and we get good icing also here. No issues.
As for the safety record of the airplane, it's been good to what I know. Making sure that we understand the last gear issues were more a maintenance issue a a particular airline...
The airplane has a lot of power to keep it aloft when icing. This one is not an issue.

As for the lawsuit, it is sad. I understand when people want the know the "truth" about what happened to loved ones. I would hate to think it s just for $$$.:(

If you think the families victims, or the jurors will consider the history of the Q400 and the 3 SAS crashes safe your crazy............

right after the SAS crashes they came out with a news article about the safety of the q400. It was a european paper but they looked up the amount of hull loss accidents vs the total # of q400 flying around at the time. Something like 16 had suffered hull loss accidents out of 160 airframes.

I know the Q is supposedly a solid airplane and i would fly on one without hesitation but from the outside (publics perspective) looking in the airplane looks like a POS and has a spotty at best safety record. Every airplane has enormous lists of problems that are either fixed or deferred... show that list to someone who doesnt know a lot about planes and it looks bad.