AC jazz hiring
03-16-2009 | 07:55 PM
#41
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From: EMB-170 FO
I have to WHOLEHEARTEDLY disagree with rickair777 and texaspilot76.
Before I continue with my rant, which other country other than the United States have you turned in an application for work at an airline and been turned down? Your arguments hold no water at all.......and as a matter of fact, it is a whole lot easier for American pilots to gain employment outside the United States than it would be for a foreigner to make it into the industry here.
First off, there is no airline in the United States that sponsors foreign individuals to obtain visas to work as crew at a 121 carrier. USCIS will not let that happen because there is an abundance of pilots that hold citizenship and can take on those jobs.
And besides all that, in order to get hired on as a pilot with any US carrier, you must have Permanent Residence Status or a work permit at the very least.
On the other hand, I can name airlines like, Etihad, Emirates, Ethiopian, Air Deccan, Air Asia to name but a few that have hired American pilots without demanding work permits. I say this with all confidence because I personally applied to a few of the above. The above carriers are the real reason that you had movement in the industry in the US. Senior Captains at the majors here lured by big tax free pay and they flooded the middle East and Asia and that was the reason that the majors here were able to hire Regional Captains and so the regionals went into a hiring frenzy.....and so on and so forth.
Take some time and look at the job postings on various websites and you will not fail to find foreign carriers seeking american pilots. Once you meet the requirements, they will take you in and sponsor you for a visa and what not.
I am just dumbfounded that there is such ignorance in the field of aviation. The field of aviation by it's very nature is supposed to provide exposure to even the most close minded, but obviously such is not the case. And based on what texaspilot76 is spewing......... we have a long way to go. I guess you just can't take Texas out of some people.
Before I continue with my rant, which other country other than the United States have you turned in an application for work at an airline and been turned down? Your arguments hold no water at all.......and as a matter of fact, it is a whole lot easier for American pilots to gain employment outside the United States than it would be for a foreigner to make it into the industry here.
First off, there is no airline in the United States that sponsors foreign individuals to obtain visas to work as crew at a 121 carrier. USCIS will not let that happen because there is an abundance of pilots that hold citizenship and can take on those jobs.
And besides all that, in order to get hired on as a pilot with any US carrier, you must have Permanent Residence Status or a work permit at the very least.
On the other hand, I can name airlines like, Etihad, Emirates, Ethiopian, Air Deccan, Air Asia to name but a few that have hired American pilots without demanding work permits. I say this with all confidence because I personally applied to a few of the above. The above carriers are the real reason that you had movement in the industry in the US. Senior Captains at the majors here lured by big tax free pay and they flooded the middle East and Asia and that was the reason that the majors here were able to hire Regional Captains and so the regionals went into a hiring frenzy.....and so on and so forth.
Take some time and look at the job postings on various websites and you will not fail to find foreign carriers seeking american pilots. Once you meet the requirements, they will take you in and sponsor you for a visa and what not.
I am just dumbfounded that there is such ignorance in the field of aviation. The field of aviation by it's very nature is supposed to provide exposure to even the most close minded, but obviously such is not the case. And based on what texaspilot76 is spewing......... we have a long way to go. I guess you just can't take Texas out of some people.
You don't have to be a citizen to work in a US airline. I wasn't born in the US but have been here since 1997. I am a permanent resident (have a green card) and pay the same taxes that US citizens pay without being able to vote or get any kind of social services or social benefits. I have an american ex-wife, a 5 year old son and an american girlfriend. Sometimes people (like me) come here to study, you meet someone and things happen. Everyone is not in this country to take jobs away from US citizens.
Foreigners can't come here to take US jobs unless an employer sponsor visas to them. USCIS requires employers to advertise and hire foreigners if they can't find qualified employees in the US. If you get an employment visa in the US, you get to stay here for 3 years. After 3 years, you have to get the same paperwork done again and at the employer's discretion you get to work for another 3 years. After working for 5 years in the US (and paying taxes), you can apply for a permanent residency if your employer is willing to file the paperwork on your behalf. This is the reason why airlines look for applicants that have their permanent residency or paperwork pending for permanent residency. They don't want to pay thousands of dollars of flight training to find out the person you trained has to leave the country in a month. It is a pain to sponsor a US visa for a foreign pilot and most companies don't want to deal with the hassle.
Now if we are talking about illegal immigrants taking jobs in this country, that is a whole different story.
Last edited by Gajre539; 03-16-2009 at 08:08 PM.
03-16-2009 | 08:08 PM
#42
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From: EMB-170 FO
You don't necessarily need to have a green card. You can work on a college visa to gain experience needed towards a degree. I worked as a flight instructor on a college visa to get 1000 hours as a CFI to get 36 credits towards my Bachelor's degree. The downside is that you have to go to school, pay tuition out of pocket and work as a flight instructor at the same time.
Last edited by Gajre539; 03-16-2009 at 08:19 PM.
03-16-2009 | 08:08 PM
#43
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 44,870
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From: Engines Turn or People Swim
Bottom line, why have there been european pilots senior to me at every aviation job I have ever had, but essentially no US pilots in europe (exception is ryanair I think)?
This is not a discussion about asia or the middle east, I do not want to live or work in either region. I would live in europe if I could get a job at one of the better carriers, but that is apparently not an option for me.
Greencard holders should not be able to hold pilot jobs in the US if there are citizens furloughed. Of course, if you like this country enough to take a citizenship oath, then welcome aboard, this debate no longer applies to you.
This is not a discussion about asia or the middle east, I do not want to live or work in either region. I would live in europe if I could get a job at one of the better carriers, but that is apparently not an option for me.
Greencard holders should not be able to hold pilot jobs in the US if there are citizens furloughed. Of course, if you like this country enough to take a citizenship oath, then welcome aboard, this debate no longer applies to you.
03-16-2009 | 08:17 PM
#44
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From: EMB-170 FO
"A Green Card or Permanent Resident Card serves as proof of a person's lawful permanent resident status in the United States. An individual with a Green Card has the right to live and work permanently in the United States."
Advantages and Benefits of US Citizenship
Green Card Application
Green card holders have the right to live and work here because they pay the same taxes that you do as a citizen. Some people don't want to be US citizens because they want to own property where they came from or retain passports to not worry about visas when they visit family back home. Personally, I'm applying for citizenship as soon as I'm eligible.
I don't understand how you don't mind a naturalized citizen taking a pilot job over a furloughed citizen, but you have an issue with someone with a greencard taking a pilot job over a furloughed citizen.
You do know that you have to wait 5 years (3 years if you are married to a US citizen) after getting a greencard to be eligible for citizenship, regardless of how much you like this country - right?
03-16-2009 | 08:18 PM
#45
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From: Airline #4
You don't necessarily need to have a green card. You can work on a college visa to gain experience needed towards a degree. I worked as a flight instructor on a college visa to get 1000 hours as a CFI to get 36 credits towards by Bachelor's degree. The downside is that you have to go to school, pay tuition out of pocket and work as a flight instructor at the same time.
03-16-2009 | 08:25 PM
#46
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 450
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From: Airline #4
Bottom line, why have there been european pilots senior to me at every aviation job I have ever had, but essentially no US pilots in europe (exception is ryanair I think)?
This is not a discussion about asia or the middle east, I do not want to live or work in either region. I would live in europe if I could get a job at one of the better carriers, but that is apparently not an option for me.
Greencard holders should not be able to hold pilot jobs in the US if there are citizens furloughed. Of course, if you like this country enough to take a citizenship oath, then welcome aboard, this debate no longer applies to you.
This is not a discussion about asia or the middle east, I do not want to live or work in either region. I would live in europe if I could get a job at one of the better carriers, but that is apparently not an option for me.
Greencard holders should not be able to hold pilot jobs in the US if there are citizens furloughed. Of course, if you like this country enough to take a citizenship oath, then welcome aboard, this debate no longer applies to you.
03-16-2009 | 08:38 PM
#47
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 44,870
Likes: 668
From: Engines Turn or People Swim
No it's not, you just don't happen to agree with it.
I know exactly what the law says, and I disagree with it under these circumstances. In the US, you do not have to agree with the law.
Paying taxes is not the reason they are allowed to work here. They have the right to live and work here because government policy allows it...don't get too caught up in that, it can be changed.
As for the folks who have foreign entanglements that preclude a US citizenship, maybe they should go home and deal with their business back in the old country. There was a pilot at one the airlines I worked for who held a noble title in his (european) country of origin, and didn't want US citizenship because they might make him give up his title...
A naturalized citizen has made a permanent commitment to this country. Legally and morally I will honor that.
Of course I know that, I have decades of service as a US military officer and multiple degrees. When you get that citizenship, you are 100% welcome here in my book.
Green card holders have the right to live and work here because they pay the same taxes that you do as a citizen. Some people don't want to be US citizens because they want to own property where they came from or retain passports to not worry about visas when they visit family back home. Personally, I'm applying for citizenship as soon as I'm eligible.
As for the folks who have foreign entanglements that preclude a US citizenship, maybe they should go home and deal with their business back in the old country. There was a pilot at one the airlines I worked for who held a noble title in his (european) country of origin, and didn't want US citizenship because they might make him give up his title...
Of course I know that, I have decades of service as a US military officer and multiple degrees. When you get that citizenship, you are 100% welcome here in my book.
03-16-2009 | 08:42 PM
#48
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 44,870
Likes: 668
From: Engines Turn or People Swim
In that case Greencard holders shouldn't have to pay taxes then, as well as be able to get unemployment while waiting to get a pilot job. A Citizenship oath? Geez, why didn't I think of that?? Let me just go to the local courthouse and get one tomorrow. It's not that easy. Besides if that rule applies to every industry where there's a laid off US Citizen, there would be a lot of unemployed residents in the United States, not paying taxes and possibly be on welfare. Also, you know, you can be European and be a US citizen, yes even if they have accents, and why does it matter that they're senior to you? It just means, that person worked their a** off before you did. It would be the same reason why a US citizen would be senior to you.
Nothing wrong with dual citizenship either
Ultimately my issue here is why can't I get a pilot job at Lufthansa, AF, or BA? Until that is answered, I have no sympathy for greencard holders. Stop spewing crap about rights and laws in the US when the EU will not reciprocate.
03-16-2009 | 08:42 PM
#49
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Joined: Jan 2008
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From: EMB-170 FO
03-16-2009 | 08:54 PM
#50
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Joined: Jan 2008
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From: EMB-170 FO
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