Amen to that. Nothing would make me happier than Delta integrating Compass, or US airways contractually taking back everything above a 70 seater, or CAL tightening up their scope even more and restricting the number of RJ's and props in the system. We'll see.

This proves that folks are just biased towards E-jets. What about big CRJs? Or ATR-72s? or Q400s? Guess none of those are a problem.

Any prop over 19 seats, or anything with jet engines should be at mainline, how's that? But seeing as they can't take all back at once, they have to start with the biggest. Is the CRJ900 a mainline aircraft? You bet!!! It's a DC9 as far as I'm concerned.

Yes. two RAH certificates have been approved for branded flying. Those approvals are just contingency plans. With Airways and United on ever unstable ground financially, RAH needs a plan for its aircraft should a major partner go away. Independence (ACA branded) came to be only because it lost its contract with United. ExpressJet did branded flying because it lost a significant amount of Continental flying. Neither airline went branded because they thought it was a good idea. They did it because they needed to generate some revenue, even if only enough to prolong the inevitable. RAH would do branded flying under the same circumstances, with the notable exception being Mokulele should RAH choose to assume further control.

RAH management wants 190's, and they are pretty good at getting their way. Labor contracts are merely bumps in the road to them. I have no preference either way at this point. You can tell me that getting 190's at RAH is career suicide, but this is coming from the guys who have watched the mainline job crumble beneath them. Age 65 extended my career at a regional. Mainline weakness in regards to scope has extended my career at a regional. You all make it sound as though I am the one choosing to settle for less and undermine my future, but it has always been the votes of mainline pilots and politicians that have dictated the length of my regional career. I put myself at a regional so that I could be qualified and experienced when the majors needed to fill seats. I am here because I wanted to better my career, to move on. You gave up the seats that I am stuck flying. And until you all at certain majors begin to show the backbone (AMR and CAL have held the scope line pretty well), the only thing I can look forward to is a bigger plane at my company.

Hazardous to your career progression???...Above 66-70 seats will STOP your career progression. 50-70 seats was hazardous to your career progression.
Glad to see an RJ person have some goals though.

For the sake of future arguments, can everybody please not reference FAs as a source of reference for postings.

Enjoy a life of crappy pay flying "big" planes at a crappy regional. That's all I have to say about that.

However RAH flies 190's, branded or not, it will be a mainline a/c on a regional payscale!

I mean rightseat ballast, are you kidding? I love it when guys who fly smaller equipment are making more money, and I love that my concessionary contract makes more money then your current contract.

awesome points...

Yea isn't it awesome...They fly almost twice the seats as some regionals yet in some cases their captains make around $20 grand a year less compared to a equal length captain, not even going to talk about F/O pay. It's all good though, they fly big planes. That's all that matters... Who cares if they reduce mainline capacity. Who cares if they get paid crap, and with all due respect the contract isn't worth a painting of a whale and a dolphin gettin' it on AND I DO MEAN WITH ALL DUE RESPECT.

Let me just be clear, since some people missed my point. I don't enjoy being stuck at a regional. I would much rather move on. However, I don't see much opportunity to leave this place in the next 5 years. I should have been through the revolving door that was once "regional airlines" already, but the only exit is the street. The lobby has been closed, and is in serious disrepair. Mainline pilots are the ones who should have tended to the upkeep of the ground level entry, but it seems they were all too busy trying to get into the penthouse suite.

meatballs.................................

You say you don't enjoy being stuck at a regional, yet you say you would like for them to get 190's which would prolong you and others BEING at a regional. Sounds more like you want to make a career out of it... I don't get it.

How'd you come to that conclusion. You should try reading out loud. Never once does he says he want's 190's at a regional. He's saying it's not his fault if they get them and he is right.

Word on the street is that we are doing some charter service for a company out of Indy. They want to 190's and are willing to pony up to get them. We are going to fly them. As far as a FA needing training materials or seeing a schedule that says anything about 190's you won't. All the pilots need to do is read the differences package and we are good to go. All ready typed, both seats. Flame On!

Just to see if I understand your perspective correctly. You don't agree with your company getting the equipment, however, you'll fly them anyways. I'm honestly not trying to flame you, hence, the following question:

Will you, or any of your co-workers just fly them, or will you take advantage of the fact that you're in current negotiations, and try to get mainline pay for a mainline aircraft?

Honest question there Fred, since we're assuming that you guys have "no say" in the equipment that your company flies.

And maybe some day you can fly the A380 for an extra 3 dollars. It is so big and shinny...

I'd fly the 380 for 20 bucks an hour...No problem. it's so big, like sitting on the second floor. come on who wouldn't want to :rolleyes:

Yeah! With spaghetti!! And maybe some garlic bread!!! Mmmmmmm..........:D:D

Nevermind...

These threads are always so much fun to read, it's honestly what keeps me coming back.

"It's the regionals fault...... No, it's the majors fault......No, it's management's/union's fault......No it's ADD and Shiny Jet Sydrome's fault......No, it's global warming and El Nino...... etc, etc, etc"

They should sticky all the threads that turn into this, but keep them at the bottom of the last thread page instead of the top of page one. Easier to find that way, and it keeps them away from useful and informative posts.

I'm grabbing a beer and some popcorn......

Ballast - I have your back.

Listen guys, none of us at RAH want 190s. (except maybe the 5% of guys who are staying for life or who are completely clueless.) No one. Get it through your thick skulls that simply because we talk about it to no end, its not because we want it - its because we have a pretty strong feeling it is on the horizon. With that being said, IF they are to be flown by a regional - why not us? In this industry, your'e growing, or your'e dying. Like RSeatB says, I have career aspirations for a major one day myself. All of us at RAH know the day 190s show up here, its only one more step in the wrong direction. However, when our #2 puts out a video to the whole company saying our 190 pay rates are too high (note: in negotiations) - one cant help to speculate.

On the "you fly airplanes for dookie pay" front. Believe me, Im well aware.... Keep in mind, our contract was the FIRST NON-CONCESSIONARY CONTRACT AFTER 9/11. When it was signed, there were ZERO 170s on property. We learned from that mistake, and while there are no 190s here now - we WILL NOT sign a contract with more substandard pay and work rules for growth. When that contract was signed, we had a few hundred pilots. Now, we have a couple thousand. An entirely different company, and our contract will show it.

Flame at will. But you all should understand the reality of this situation. Wake up.

I once at a DB pilot who jumpseated on my CRJ-200. He looked around with the look of disgust and said something like, "I can't believe you guys get paid more than we do, to fly this smaller airplane." This really happened.

Yup, for real.

Don't EVER sell your soul. Because when it's gone, it's gone. You can't buy it back.

Tye differences? Aren't they all the same?

Don't forget they've also gotten the software in IAH for the XR's:rolleyes:

Captain Sully makes $150k a year. A 175+ CA can bump over 6 figs. Where's the room?

No he never did say that. If you have a point to make argue it all you'd like but don't put words into other's mouths to do so.

just like the "differences training" for a 170 to 175, or a CRJ200 to a 700-900...training on new limitations(weights etc), dimension, and the 190 has an over wing exit, 170-175 do not....same type rating but still require differences training.

Ah ok. I guess there are more doors.

must you really be so sarcastic? you asked a simple question and got a reasonable answer. this isnt flightinfo.

Not another RAH 190 thread...this is getting old and tiring.

Anyone who thinks they will be mainline pilots...think again. Look at our current situation. All the majors have pilots on furlough and even if you managed to squeak your way in, plan on being a FO for the rest of your career. Your only hope is to get a good schedule as a reserve in a base you want.

If RAH management wants 190s why should the pilots there fight against bettering their situation and refusing the 190s? That is just plain dumb. I have friends that left XXX regional for XXX major this last hiring stint and they are out of jobs now. They were CAs at the regional making $70k+, went to mainline and back to FO pay $30k+ and now they have nothing.

American? don't count on it
Delta? maybe...
United? forget it!
Continental? no health for 6 months...$30/hr...no way
US Air? Ha! Better off where your at.

Times are changing and we haven't seen the worst yet.

I thought that the reason the regional pilots accepted minimum wage for flying a sophisticated machine was the fact that it was a stepping stone... Why would anyone get into this mess if in the endthe best case scenario will be making 70k a year?
I must admitt that management in the USA did a terrefic job by reducing this prestigious occupation into a proverbial bus driver. If pilots settle for less why would any sane businessman would think otherwise?

I asked a simple question, got a simple answer, then replied with a simple thought about why they'd have to get retrained. More exits would mean they'd technically have to get retrained for different briefing and possible evac procedures. I don't really know of anything else different with the aircraft since it seems rather identical. There was nothing sarcastic about it at all. Must you think everyone is so cynical? I try to keep the sarcasm to a minimum and it's usually accompanied with a :rolleyes: or :cool: or :eek: Just FYI.

Even $50K a year is a great start as a regional CA. We have CAs making 6 figures on a 145. How much $ do you need? Wouldn't you appreciate job security, great schedule more than an extra $50k? If you are already at your regional or 135 operator, why take the risk of going mainline is all I'm saying.

If RAH wants to advance itself and 190s is their direction, why should the pilots their fight that? They have a descent contract and are working toward a better one.

I can get a job as a Hawker CA at the airport by me and starts at $65k with no guaranteed job security, no flight benefits, no scheduled 12-15 days off/month and no annual pay schedule meaning no guarantee I will make anything over 65K.

It will be a long time before applying to a major will be a wise choice and not a gamble. The only thing that really sticks out negatively about regionals is the first year FO pay. I did and survived but now am making $45k as a 2nd yr FO.

Regarding job security, keep in mind there will always be a low bidder for mainline contracts. Ask the folks at Atlantic Coast & Air Wisconsin...

My prediction is that the next place majors will seek to cut costs is their regional affiliates, as contracts come up for renewal.

Why settle for less? Why do you want to make less than most college gradutes while your jobs requires more training? Why not aspire to making 300K a year like pilots used to make? European pilots make multiples of 50K flying the same planes that Americans fly. Management makes millions why not get some chunk of that?
Your logic seems very flawed to me. If you willing to setlle for 50K, then why not 25K? You replaced a guy that you used get paid 100K and maybe you will get replaced by someone that will setlle for half your pay. Where does it end?

By the way no cancelltion pay or 75% for deadhead does not qualify as anything decent to me. You want to improve the contract and yet you are willing to work for less? Which one is it?

No offense, but people like you are the reason J.O., Hulas, Bedford, Lorenzo, get away with the stuff they get away with. A 190 is a mainline aircraft, if a regional was fly them under their own flag, I would expect them to do it for mainline wages or not at all.

Cut costs...that's fine and dandy but if they cut the regional contracts there's no one to serve the small communities to feed the mainline flights and having 737s fly into small communities doesn't cut costs but will increase spending.

Second, if they use the lowest bidder regional (Mesa), performance will drop and passengers will become frustrated and angry and either drive farther to access a hub or fly Southwest who serves more local communities with their aircraft.

I don't agree with majors releasing scope, but it was done and we all have to make the best of it. I would have loved to work for American, US Air or Delta, but that's just not an option for me anymore. Too much risk for too little reward. I am stuck at my regional for a while and have to keep standards from dropping and try to raise the bar when it allows.

300K? What mainline pilot makes that anymore? Like the first 300 pilots at American maybe. Won't happen. Pilots making 300K is overinflated to me. $100K is a great salary and I live in NY, a very expensive place. CEOs should make less and take the extra $ and put it into the airline...not their pockets.

Also keep in mind, I'm on the EMB145, if 100K isn't enough $ for that a/c, what is? The EMB190 top pay should be more of course and at RAH it is. Anything greater that 75% dh pay, really? Not really a priority. Cancellation pay...definitely!!! I totally agree and they are working on it.