Hmmm...not sure I agree with you. At Colgan I made $23K my first year, $48K my second as a captain for a two year total of $71k...compared to your $70k? And after just 2 1/2 years at Colgan I've applied to SWA, AirTran, and CAL...because I have the turbine PIC time.

My point is regional pay, with a couple of exceptions, is about the same across the board. Chose a regional for other reasons than pay.


I also spent 15 years working in Fortune 500 business. My average workweek was Mon - Saturday morning, 55-70 hours total with an additional three to six hours at home in the evenings - about 240 hours a month. I traveled on business five to eight days a month. It took 11 years to get to a low six-figure salary, with the first seven years not earning more than $65k annually...and I was in IT in Silicon Valley for the last eight years. During that time my positions were "eliminated" three times WITHOUT REGARD TO SENORITY. The first two times I was able to find a new position within the company I was with within a very long month. The last time my position was "eliminated" I was in senior management and totally burnt. I took my six weeks severance (for 8 years service) and became a pilot. Today I work far less at something I love, with much more time off. I see more of my wife. I don't take work home, I don't have a "report" or "presentation" due tomorrow, I don't have to worry about my annual review. Today I work for an airline that makes money. I have two-thirds of the seniority list below me, which means I'd have to do something really stupid or the company would have to pretty much fail for me to lose my job. Yes, I make 60% of what I used to make, but that salary is rising and if I'm lucky and make it to a major, I'll make more than I used to make in business. I live comfortably in an area with much lower costs of living than before.

Needless to say, I love what I do now. It has been worth it. Call me biased but you couldn't pry me out of my pilot seat with dynamite.

Does anyone know if ALPA has ever thought of pursuing a straight hourly wage per duty hour like normal folks use? Seems like it would solve a lot of problems. That 14 hour day may not suck as bad if I was getting paid for sitting due to the companies inability to schedule efficiently.

BUrFlyer
 

First of all aviation failed me. I was there the entire time and gave it 100% for nearly 20 years. I never failed a check ride, graduated with a degree in aviation and business with honors, am in good health and have letters of recommendation from every employer except for one. My only fault was that I am not prepared to throw my entire life down the tube in pursuit of a hopeless endeavor. Perhaps if I was single I would still be out there but with a family in tow I feel that it is simply irresponsible to continue.

To address your other point few will make it to the majors and if they do it will be after a decade of efforts in lower positions. In addition the lucky few who do make it to the majors will enjoy a decade more of lower wages and perhaps a furlough or two along the way.

My point here is that other professions offer what is now senior major airline FO pay to starting college grads. These people will be light years better off by the time their peers in aviation even get close. Pilot compensation is falling rapidly by the wayside as the real world surges ahead. I think that it is important to consider that.

SkyHigh

WEACLRS,

How did you get where you are? Do you fly for SWA?

Thanks,
LAFF

You know what I like about flying for a profession?..It's not a job...It's a lifestyle. I do have a source of other income though, so maybe I'm bias. BUT. When I see all those fools going to go work in bumper to bumper traffic...A day in a cubical from 9 to 5 doesn't appeal to me at all. If your looking for cash...Go into business for yourself...If your looking for a great lifestyle...Go fly for a living...I have found in my 20 years as an Airline Pilot that you'll find those who love it and those who don't. Those who love it seem to do very well in the job and seem to have successful endeavors outside of aviation also...Those who don't most likely will complain about everything anyway. I've worked Line service, Washing Airplanes, Corporate, Regional, and I still made it to the Left Seat of a DC-10 before I was 30 years old. Why?...I busted my butt to get what I wanted and not by listening to those who would never make it in a profession that wasn't for them in the first place...Good luck and Good Night.

Yeah, it’s called duty-rig. Your MEC is the one who negotiates that with alpa's approval on the final contract language.

If you are at a regional carrier (which I’m guessing you are), more than likely you don't and will not get duty-rigs because those pilot groups tend to negotiate toward the bottom of pay standards. I still have not figured out why. You would think they would get something in return from the company management. Oh, they do, they get to fly their shiny airplanes and call themselves "regional airline pilots".

Opportunities
 

A lot of success in aviation depends upon luck and circumstances. I am sure that even you would concede that your results are not typical by a long shot. In addition much depends upon what you are willing to lay upon the alter of aviation as a sacrifice. In order to enjoy your levels of success most would have to accept a single life with out many friends, wives, children or family contacts, and perhaps to throw financial security to the winds as well. I know many successful airline captains with brilliant careers who totally missed out on the best opportunities for a happy life outside of the flight deck. In the end life is a balance, there is a price for everything and an opportunity cost as well. Everyone needs to consider what they are willing to loose in trade.

SkyHigh

I know what a duty rig is and that was not the question. Straight hourly pay would eliminate the need for a duty rig. You would only need a daily min guarantee. Nice slam on the regionals though. :rolleyes: BTW, all these sh!tty contracts happen to have Duane Woerth's signature on them too ...go b!tch to him as well.

Oh, I see what you mean. Don't think that would go over very well with ANY airline management guru. Yeah, it would be GREAT for pilots, but cost the company lots of money and gnaw at the lining of management’s bottomless, greedy pockets.

I personally think the outcome of any endeavor to have a "straight hourly pay" would greatly decrease line quality and adversely affect QOL. Just my 2 cents on that though.

I think duty rig and min day pay are the best routes to take in a contract.

I wasn't really trying to "slam", but it is discouraging to see what pilots at regional airlines (and I am not a major pilot just to let you know, if fact I'm out of the game all together) are willing to work for just to be "airline pilots". Flying is fun and all (I miss it sometimes), but the industry, especially at the regional level, is becoming a sweat shop. The only redeeming aspect of the job (other than the joy of flying from point A to B and reading the USA Today at 370) is that it gives one an ego boost. If you do it purely for the "joy" then hats off to you.


Oh, I totally agree. ALPA is “Woerthless”. Despite all the Happy-McFeelGood, touchy-feeling that ALPA is trying to propagandize between the majors and the regionals, there is still a conflict of interest within. But ole Duane won’t rock the boat because he still gets his chunk of change.

I just talked to a from a friend at Colgan - he's been there almost 8 months, still on reserve, 8 days off, not even flying enough to break guarantee (he's on the 1900).

Just because you were lucky enough to get on at the uptick of expansion doesn't mean other people are. He's forcasting at least another 12 months to upgrade, and he says it'll be 3.5 years before he sees the SAAB (with no more expansion).

Point being, you can take the risk of short upgrade, but then get stuck at the bottom, or take the risk of a longer upgrade, but have a better QOL if you get stuck. Compare that $23k x 2 years ($46k) to our $70k...quite a big difference, isn't it?

Congrats on applying to majors - it's certainly a big milestone. You are definately in a good position if they start hiring later on. A CA I just flew a trip with was interviewed and hired at SWA WITHOUT a type rating, he just had to get it prior to starting groundschool.