Starting wages
 

I was at a party over the weekend with several college students who were about to graduate. I was shocked to discover that most already had jobs waiting and were starting at 50-75K with all the benefits. I thought "man it would take a pilot grad a full ten years after college to earn that much". One of them ironically asked why I wasn't still flying.

SkyHigh

10 years if you work for Eagle where the upgrade is 8 years!!

Pharmaceutical grads, PTs, nurses, engineers, accountants without CPA, financial analysts, all make 50k starting, some more. They secured their job at least a semester ahead of time. This is good for us young people(maybe not so in the aviation industry) since the economy is on a big rebound on hiring since the .com boom. The progression of pay for some of those professions like the accountant who gets his CPA two years out of college will be a senior management position before 30 making 90k plus, and more in the top firms. My younger brother just graduated and is starting his accounting job at at top firm will be making 55k plus 3 weeks of vacation, usual 401k, and some health benefits. That's the good. The bad is that he will be working 80plus hour work weeks(including Saturdays and possibly Sundays for invidividual audits no joke) for about 4 months out of the year for busy auditing and tax season. So he'll total at most 4 days off each month during those months. The other 7 months he will still be clocking at least 50 hours to build up credit hours to qualify for the CPA as a junior accountant, sorta like time building while flight instructing. He will also bring home work like lawyers do. This will take up two years. He has also has a 4 hour commute total each day to and back. Yes you may get weekends off most of the time but it's not like you go in and work your standard 9-5 and go home. With their salaries they are actually working more than you think sometimes. On the other hand I have another older friend who is finishing up his masters and will be taking on a network security position at the NSA for the gov't. He says he'll be working the cushy standard 9-5 with all the benefits you can imagine starting probably around 60-70k, though he hasn't been told yet. It took home close to two years to get this gig and numerous interviews that many don't pass. That's some of the reality going on in the job market these days. 55k is a lot compared to a first year regional FO but they have their issues to worry about as well. You see it on wall street all the time. They are payed very handsomely but many are working like dogs. This is a very competitive world as I see it.

But with other occupations like teachers in my area, social workers, cops(with exception of state patrol), firefighters, no way do they start out as such high salary.

Clap for my first post!

[quote=NexPilot]
But with other occupations like teachers in my area, social workers, cops(with exception of state patrol), firefighters, no way do they start out as such high salary.
[quote]

All those positions you mentioned in NYC get paid more than a starting regional airline pilot. Cops and teachers have pensions that won't disappear either, and no age limitation to when they retire. Although NYC cut starting copy pay to the mid 20's for the first year, it's still more than any regional airline pays, and those cops can make over time, which is where the real money is at anyway. And their schedule isn't bad either.

It's certainly more than a first year regional FO but I was indicating that they don't all make 50k or even 40k starting like other occupations. Teaching salary can be great especially if you go out to the Island away from the city. They're some of the highest payed in the nation there but cost of living certainly drags them down a bit. With the cost of living in nyc very high that first year 25k teaching salary doesn't amount to that much more than the regional FO unless you're at Colgan or Great Lakes. But go out to the Island and it'll be a different story.

COlgan 1st year is equivalent to other regionals

Yea thanks for the correction.:p I was under the impression they worked for less than some of the others first year since they operate turboprops, but just checked their payrates and first year pay is similar.

Absolutely NOT true.

I will make almost $30k including per diem my first year. Colgan guys aren't even CLOSE to that. Second year FO's are making over $40k if they bid to fly (ie not bid reserve on purpose). Credit pay adds up to a lot of credit time over block. Straight hourly isn't a good indicator.

Personally, when I go visit friends or the significant other in offices, I get all choked up just being there. I can't imagine working in one location for an entire day. I'm happy to make less but have practically zero stress on the job. My biggest stress point is timing the employee bus to the parking lot.

Ninja,
Keep in mind teachers, cops, etc. make that much money because their COLA is so high. At a decent regional you can make $25k+ your first year, $40k second and third, and $60-$65k fourth year as the upgrade comes (unless you are at Eagle). And you have a choice of bases and commuting options.

Having done both flying and office work; while getting paid, I'd take the flying anyday. I made about 60K sitting in an office with no windows, sending emails and giving briefings all day. I never want to do that again. So I threw away all the bennies and now I'm going to be begging for a job at 20K. Either way, it is WORK, you might as well do something you remotely enjoy. Oh yeah, I also worked 12-15hr shifts (probably just a little more than most pilots) which means if you add it up you are missing 67%+ of your family life. When I wasn't on shift I worked up to 100 hours a week so I was very happy to move to rotating shifts 3X12 hr days, 3 off then 3x12hr nights on and on. Plus, when I was told to go somewhere for 8 weeks 3 days after my wedding, I went.

Oh, and garbage guys in New York make more money that a lot of highly skilled people around the country. But I probably had more disposable income when I was a cadet on $60 a month.

SkyHigh I realise you get your jollies up by bringing down the pilot profession because you faild but please don't talk about wages. Your point might be understandable if one spends life at the regionals. If you move up to fractionals or major airlines, there is no question that you will be making more than 100k at the least in a few years.

Hmmm...not sure I agree with you. At Colgan I made $23K my first year, $48K my second as a captain for a two year total of $71k...compared to your $70k? And after just 2 1/2 years at Colgan I've applied to SWA, AirTran, and CAL...because I have the turbine PIC time.

My point is regional pay, with a couple of exceptions, is about the same across the board. Chose a regional for other reasons than pay.


I also spent 15 years working in Fortune 500 business. My average workweek was Mon - Saturday morning, 55-70 hours total with an additional three to six hours at home in the evenings - about 240 hours a month. I traveled on business five to eight days a month. It took 11 years to get to a low six-figure salary, with the first seven years not earning more than $65k annually...and I was in IT in Silicon Valley for the last eight years. During that time my positions were "eliminated" three times WITHOUT REGARD TO SENORITY. The first two times I was able to find a new position within the company I was with within a very long month. The last time my position was "eliminated" I was in senior management and totally burnt. I took my six weeks severance (for 8 years service) and became a pilot. Today I work far less at something I love, with much more time off. I see more of my wife. I don't take work home, I don't have a "report" or "presentation" due tomorrow, I don't have to worry about my annual review. Today I work for an airline that makes money. I have two-thirds of the seniority list below me, which means I'd have to do something really stupid or the company would have to pretty much fail for me to lose my job. Yes, I make 60% of what I used to make, but that salary is rising and if I'm lucky and make it to a major, I'll make more than I used to make in business. I live comfortably in an area with much lower costs of living than before.

Needless to say, I love what I do now. It has been worth it. Call me biased but you couldn't pry me out of my pilot seat with dynamite.

Does anyone know if ALPA has ever thought of pursuing a straight hourly wage per duty hour like normal folks use? Seems like it would solve a lot of problems. That 14 hour day may not suck as bad if I was getting paid for sitting due to the companies inability to schedule efficiently.

BUrFlyer
 

First of all aviation failed me. I was there the entire time and gave it 100% for nearly 20 years. I never failed a check ride, graduated with a degree in aviation and business with honors, am in good health and have letters of recommendation from every employer except for one. My only fault was that I am not prepared to throw my entire life down the tube in pursuit of a hopeless endeavor. Perhaps if I was single I would still be out there but with a family in tow I feel that it is simply irresponsible to continue.

To address your other point few will make it to the majors and if they do it will be after a decade of efforts in lower positions. In addition the lucky few who do make it to the majors will enjoy a decade more of lower wages and perhaps a furlough or two along the way.

My point here is that other professions offer what is now senior major airline FO pay to starting college grads. These people will be light years better off by the time their peers in aviation even get close. Pilot compensation is falling rapidly by the wayside as the real world surges ahead. I think that it is important to consider that.

SkyHigh

WEACLRS,

How did you get where you are? Do you fly for SWA?

Thanks,
LAFF

You know what I like about flying for a profession?..It's not a job...It's a lifestyle. I do have a source of other income though, so maybe I'm bias. BUT. When I see all those fools going to go work in bumper to bumper traffic...A day in a cubical from 9 to 5 doesn't appeal to me at all. If your looking for cash...Go into business for yourself...If your looking for a great lifestyle...Go fly for a living...I have found in my 20 years as an Airline Pilot that you'll find those who love it and those who don't. Those who love it seem to do very well in the job and seem to have successful endeavors outside of aviation also...Those who don't most likely will complain about everything anyway. I've worked Line service, Washing Airplanes, Corporate, Regional, and I still made it to the Left Seat of a DC-10 before I was 30 years old. Why?...I busted my butt to get what I wanted and not by listening to those who would never make it in a profession that wasn't for them in the first place...Good luck and Good Night.

Yeah, it’s called duty-rig. Your MEC is the one who negotiates that with alpa's approval on the final contract language.

If you are at a regional carrier (which I’m guessing you are), more than likely you don't and will not get duty-rigs because those pilot groups tend to negotiate toward the bottom of pay standards. I still have not figured out why. You would think they would get something in return from the company management. Oh, they do, they get to fly their shiny airplanes and call themselves "regional airline pilots".

Opportunities
 

A lot of success in aviation depends upon luck and circumstances. I am sure that even you would concede that your results are not typical by a long shot. In addition much depends upon what you are willing to lay upon the alter of aviation as a sacrifice. In order to enjoy your levels of success most would have to accept a single life with out many friends, wives, children or family contacts, and perhaps to throw financial security to the winds as well. I know many successful airline captains with brilliant careers who totally missed out on the best opportunities for a happy life outside of the flight deck. In the end life is a balance, there is a price for everything and an opportunity cost as well. Everyone needs to consider what they are willing to loose in trade.

SkyHigh

I know what a duty rig is and that was not the question. Straight hourly pay would eliminate the need for a duty rig. You would only need a daily min guarantee. Nice slam on the regionals though. :rolleyes: BTW, all these sh!tty contracts happen to have Duane Woerth's signature on them too ...go b!tch to him as well.

Oh, I see what you mean. Don't think that would go over very well with ANY airline management guru. Yeah, it would be GREAT for pilots, but cost the company lots of money and gnaw at the lining of management’s bottomless, greedy pockets.

I personally think the outcome of any endeavor to have a "straight hourly pay" would greatly decrease line quality and adversely affect QOL. Just my 2 cents on that though.

I think duty rig and min day pay are the best routes to take in a contract.

I wasn't really trying to "slam", but it is discouraging to see what pilots at regional airlines (and I am not a major pilot just to let you know, if fact I'm out of the game all together) are willing to work for just to be "airline pilots". Flying is fun and all (I miss it sometimes), but the industry, especially at the regional level, is becoming a sweat shop. The only redeeming aspect of the job (other than the joy of flying from point A to B and reading the USA Today at 370) is that it gives one an ego boost. If you do it purely for the "joy" then hats off to you.


Oh, I totally agree. ALPA is “Woerthless”. Despite all the Happy-McFeelGood, touchy-feeling that ALPA is trying to propagandize between the majors and the regionals, there is still a conflict of interest within. But ole Duane won’t rock the boat because he still gets his chunk of change.

I just talked to a from a friend at Colgan - he's been there almost 8 months, still on reserve, 8 days off, not even flying enough to break guarantee (he's on the 1900).

Just because you were lucky enough to get on at the uptick of expansion doesn't mean other people are. He's forcasting at least another 12 months to upgrade, and he says it'll be 3.5 years before he sees the SAAB (with no more expansion).

Point being, you can take the risk of short upgrade, but then get stuck at the bottom, or take the risk of a longer upgrade, but have a better QOL if you get stuck. Compare that $23k x 2 years ($46k) to our $70k...quite a big difference, isn't it?

Congrats on applying to majors - it's certainly a big milestone. You are definately in a good position if they start hiring later on. A CA I just flew a trip with was interviewed and hired at SWA WITHOUT a type rating, he just had to get it prior to starting groundschool.

fosters, who do you fly for to make 70 thousand total the first 2 years.

Minimum days off at Colgan is 10, not 8. I know, still not great. If he is still on reserve after 8 months, he chooses to be. By that I mean staying in the base he is in. He could easily transfer to another base, be more senior and hold a higher paying line.

Yea you're right. I did catch the expansion well. I upgraded in 14 months. I was lucky there. And one downside of Colgan (regardless of my positive opinion of the company) is the guys who get assigned to the Beech have to go through the left chair on the Beech for a year before seeing the left seat of the SAAB. I do believe more expansion is about to happen.

As the upgrade times have lengthen out to 18 months or so the company knows they have a problem with second year pay for FO's. I think there may be a pay raise coming there. Up until six months ago it wasn't an issue, because second year pay was at the captain's rate. Fosters, what do you think at your company your total pay would be over four or five years, with the current upgrade times?

We've had two without types get interviews, one was successful (the unsuccessful one is at JetBlue now). SWA says about 20% of those they are interviewing now don't have it and typically those candidates have between 2200 and 2800 pic instead of the average of 1800 pic. Continental is my first choice but as I get closer the 1600 pic mark, I may go get the type. SWA would be a great place to be. I never thought I would ever get the chance to even apply to a major.

Couldn't have said it better. Nice post.

Maybe he miscounted, but that's what he told me. Yes I agree about staying put vs. moving to a junior base.

Current upgrade times are running just shy of 3 years, due to a major amount of attrition.

Note figures below include per diem (about $5,000 per years worth), but do not include 401(k) company match. They are also based on getting lines in the 90-hour area.

1st year - $30k Total so far: $30k
2nd year - $40k Total so far: $70k
3rd year - $40k Total so far: $110k
4th year (CA) - $70k Total so far: $180k
5th year (CA) - $73k Total so far: $253k

Keep in mind these figures are for people who actually WORK, not sit reserve (either by choice or because that's what they can hold) and for people that bid high credit lines. It seems most people are bidding the commuter friendly schedules, which makes most of the high credit lines (ie 90+ hours) available for the junior guys who live in base.

I talked to a sixth year CA who's W2 showed $80k last year. Not bad. The reason being they were REALLY short of CA's (and still are, to some extent) and have to junior man people (1.5 pay). HOWEVER, that being said, YOU are in the better postion because YOU have the turbine PIC NOW, not later. All things considered, upgrade at Colgan will be less than most other carriers, unless one happens to see rapid expansion.

The pay rates listed here are misleading. I flew 55 hours of FAR block time in April but credited 102 hours. This month I will be close to 100 as well, same goes for June. I'm also a junior FO.

I work for a US Air feeder.

Skyhigh, this is why so many of us have thought you're out to lunch. The fact is there are many other jobs guys with our brains and skills can do for a good wage with some upward mobility. You insist the pilot proffesion will never pay high wages again. I disagree because of the competing careers out there. Time will tell. Wish the Alaska pilots luck. We are going to try to stop the slide with our next contract. We start negotiations now.

Fosters - thanks for posting this. I think this conversation is important. Here are similar numbers for Colgan. I used 90 hours average pay credit for the Saab and 95 for the Beech (they work more hours). I'm also assuming these figures are for guys who actually work instead of always bidding for the most days off. Lastly, I'm assuming guys come into the company with at least 1000 hours (we do hire less) and therefor can upgrade when their seniority number comes up. I've broken it down into Beech, Saab NE, and Saab Texas. Saab pilots in Texas do multi-day trips if they want and those that do will pick up an additional $2500 to $3000 annually in per diem. I've also added PIC time. In addition, upgrade (if you have the time) on the Beech can be less than a year. I've used one year. I have also assumed the Beech guy will transition to the Saab at the end of his second year. Upgrade on the Saab is 18 months.

Year - Beech - PIC - Saab NE - Saab TX - PIC
1 - $22.8k - 0000 - $22.7k - $25.7k - 0000
2 - $36.5k - 0750 - $35.1k - $38.1k - 0350
3 - $46.4k - 1500 - $46.4k - $49.4k - 1100
4 - $48.6k - 2250 - $48.6k - $51.6k - 1850
5 - $49.7k - 3000 - $49.7k - $52.7k - 2600

Total - $204k - - $203k - - $217k

So our total pay is about 35 - 50k less than yours as I suspected. But here's the difference for me. I'm two years ahead (on the career path) of a guy at a company with a three year upgrade (or more) because by the end of my third year I have 1100 to 1500 hours of turbine pic time. There're still waiting for upgrade. Two things - we all know this career can be unstable and have it's ups and downs. And without turbine pic time the next level is all but impossible to get to. At Colgan I've only been exposed to 1 to 2 years of something happening as opposed to 3 or more years elsewhere (just ask a senior Eagle FO how many times he has "almost" made it to upgrade only to be pushed back). In this environment miminizing time in the right seat (unless you have the age to spare) is very important at the sub-major / sub - career destination level. So my risk exposure is at least 30% less. Secondly, lets say I get lucky and get picked up by a major in my fourth or fifth year (which is happening here at Colgan). I'm now at least two years ahead of them which means at the very least I'll have two more years on my career as a captain. Since senior captains' salaries at majors are roughly 70K more than senior FO's, that's at least an additional $140k I will make in my career (actually more because of senority) because I got the turbine PIC time quicker.

This was an important analysis for me (I'm over 40). It's why one of my biggest priorities was a quick upgrade. I'm resistant to furlough, I've got PIC time, and just maybe a few more years at the next level. That said I also have made the decision that I'll stay at Colgan if I don't get hired at CAL, SWA, etc. I've built my life now around that potential possibility and resultant pay scales.

How do you block 55 hours and get paid for 102? Typically I block 78 - 85 hours and get paid 90 - 100 (I averaged 93 pay credit hours per month in the last year). I've heard this before at other regionals and have always wondered...

Point
 

My position is that aviation is unlike other professions due to the "shinny jet syndrome". It is not a real job anymore and is becoming more of a working hobby. In addition it is much easier to work for the airlines now that we have highly automated airplanes with GPS and glass cockpits. Airlines don't really require a difficult search to find a large and growing population of eager pilots. As evidence when the regionals started hiring new pilots with 600 hours to fly the RJ it was over. Another fact is that the majors have been rapidly raising their minimums to compensate for the flood of overqualified pilot applicants. Why would they pay any more? How can the airlines pay more when the competition is offering the same product for less others must follow?

Aviation is becoming more of a religion to the younger generation. They almost seem offended when I suggest that 50K is not a whole lot of money to fly as a regional captain. It almost seems that they are prepared to work for free. I wish things were different. I am sure that many here think my ideas are crazy, but what other alternative do they have?

SKyHigh

the only reason why the pay is this low is because people are excited to take these jobs at 20k. if everyone puts their foot down then the pay will go up.

Ok, how? Unions? Work "slow down?"

Foot Down
 

Who will be the first to stand up and quit flying? If you did there would be three more to take your job. Even now I am sure that there are people who would do your job at half the wage. There isn't a line up to be plumbers at half the wage or to be construction managers. Aviation is different it isn't a real job anymore. People will do it for the experience alone.

SkyHigh

SkyHigh,

I do agree with much of what you put out. At the beginning of this thread guys were bouncing other professions starting salaries and hours worked vs regional pay. Then guys who have done the office jobs chimed in and said they were glad to give up the office for the cockpit for 1/2 of what they made or less. They complained about 70 hour work weeks etc. When an airline guy adds all the time he spends not getting paid while "on the job" (ie crew lounge, commuting, RON in a hotel) then the hours may be similiar, just less stressful. As long as guys have the atitude that less $$ is OK because the stress level is not the same then wages will never improve. In the regionals constant cut-throat bidding war to win the majors feeder contracts the only negotiable cost is labor and it seems to continually be sent lower on the guise that we will lay you off if we lose this contract. The pilots are continually buying this crap from mgmt. I say stand your ground even if it costs your job. Let's face it, there are lot of other things people can do and make $20-$30k. It's been said here that flying seems to be becoming more of a poorly paid hobby to many. They make just enough to keep the hobby afloat. I 100% agree with that as many here says they will do anything to stay flying and away from corporate America and I guess that includes continued pay/benefit cuts. When one is single and starting out they can eat Ramen noodles, drink Old Mil Light, and have three roommates in an apt with few problems while they build time and make $20k. But when one gets older and has a family that salary no longer cuts it. It is great that regional guys build the time to eventually apply to the majors but they must not see what is happening at the majors right now means more time for them at the regionals and at the lower pay they most eagerly initially accepted. The glory of the majors is not really there anymore. The legacy's are either in bankruptcy or have been and will not be hiring for years to come except one,CAL. So that's one hiring and five not (AA,DAL,UAL,NW,USAir). Now everyone's praising the LCC's as gods when five years ago people were totally discounting them. Well JB has put out that they are only hiring for the E190's right now and the starting is about $37k. They are also reducing their Airbus monthly bids until the holiday season. All that was in a letter to their pilots. A gal in the People Dept at SW just called a friend of mine yesterday and said that they are no longer interviewing those without the type because they need to fill classes now and cannot wait for them to get the type. She only called him because he had a friend with great conections there that was pulling for him. That's another $8k that must now be spent on the opportunity to get an interview. BTW, that's about 15-20% of your 2-3 yr regional guys salary. FedEx is about a one yr process right now from scheduling a meet and greet to class up and at UPS one needs deep inside connections to get an interview. What I'm saying is that the majors are not the low hanging fruit that they once were and with few jobs open right now you will be stuck at your regional job for longer than you thought. So before you think that low wage is only acceptable because its temporary think twice, because it may not be. Good luck.

Also, to continue my rant. Why is it when one points out the shortcomings and negatives of this business do they get torched by most and thrown to the side?

quaileman:

Couldn't agree with you more. I have an aviation education and spent most of my working career outside of aviation and HATED IT :mad: . Working M-F, 8-5, has its ups and downs. Dealing with all the bu((sh!t about submitting reports, and just dealing with a whole lot of personalities just wore me out. I'm sick of corporate America.

Now that I have a chance to pursue the career I always wanted in the first place, I not going to let anything stop me.

atp

I worked Long Call days, basically reserve where you sit at home and have 2 days to report if they need you. We're never needed, so I never fly, and then I pick up trips on the days that I'm released and get paid for them over and above my monthly guarantee (I get paid the days' credit and the LC credit of 4:30). So less work and more pay. Works for me. In addition, if you pick up trips out of open time they are paid at 1.5 pay. The downside right now is there isn't much open time flying, because we are fat on pilots. However there is still a lot of action for trip trades, but that's only 1:1 pay.

If we overblock on ANY leg, and underblock on the rest, we still get the over block pay for that leg, and block pay for the rest. There are days I overblock one leg by almost 2 hours (wx delay sitting on the ground) and that's above and beyond our credit for the month. A typical month will have 5-10 hours of extra time this way.

Also, we have duty and trip rigs. For every 2 hours of duty time, we are guaranteed 1 hour flight pay. For every 4 hours of trip time (used to be 3.5 hours, oh well) we are guaranteed 1 hour of flight pay.

So a 4-day that has has 80 hours of TAFB we're guaranteed to credit 20 hours. If the same 4-day has 48 hours of duty time, we're guaranteed 24 hours of pay. Now, if you block >24 hours, you get that, but if you block, say, 18 hours then you still get 24 hours pay, and get another 6 hours of credit.

That's how I turned 55 hours of FAR block time into 102 hours of credit time. And I still ended up with 16 days off :). After that, however, I just bid for normal lines crediting 95 hours and lots of per diem.

For me, I am 24, so I wanted some QOL while I am still young enough to be able to afford taking my time. If I haven't upgrade by the time I am 27 I will most likely get out and find another job (be it small freight or whatever) for the PIC time. Who knows.

I agree, upgrading quicker is definately worth it. That being said, if most of the people leaving Colgan have 4-5 years with the company, that is no different than here. There are some people that have been here much longer, but they are staying put, not trying to get out.

Including accepting low pay/benies/QOL?

I think this is what quaileman was round-about saying hurts the profession, but maybe I just misread his post.

I agree with some to most of what skyhigh says, and from what I gleaned from quaileman's post, I totally agree with what he said. I loved flying and miss it sometimes, but I found myself stuck in a semi-low paying regional job with NO potential upward movement (in fact steady downward movment was/is the norm there) and needed to take care of my family. I opted out of the airline biz after 8 ½ years in it to pursue more secure and economically feasible work outside of aviation.

I think the folks that will do ANYTHING to get that "airline pilot" job, are cheating themselves, the profession, and their family (if they are at that point in their lives).

Do I miss it? Do I think about getting back in? Yes, but I am not willing to do that to my family (the large sacrifices) and choose not to be one of those who perpetuate a cheapened profession by accepting substandard wages and benies.

Just my 2 cents.

How can a new hire negotiate pay, maybe the guys who are already there should open their mouths and get the pay up and quit complaining about the new guy taking the crap pay, they do not have any other way in!

You'd be surprised with what the unions turn down. At my company, managment approached the union to make probationary pay come down from $24/hr to $15/hr! This was on a 50 seat a/c. They flat out said no. Management was asking for this because they were bidding on NWA flying, and wanted to be "competitive". The union didn't buy it.

Were you at Eagle? What time frame?

the only cure for the industry is for the standards to be a pilot to increase. Make it more difficult to get pilot training. We need to implement high prerequisites to become a pilot. These days it seems any idiot can say "Hey I want to be a pilot" slap down $100000 and right seat in an airliner. Rediculous!! I am in the medical field, we have tons of prereqs to get in, need to meet standards that why pay is good.

I may not be as informed about the industry as much as some of you guys out there, being that I'm not a pilot...yet, however, given the current economic situation in terms of the pay...there is nothing that I can do at this point to affect change. Once I get in though, that's a different story, but keep in mind, those of us who are attempting to enter the field have to start somewhere. That's just how it is right now.

I agree with SkyHigh. The pay isn't where it should be. In addition to pay being based on revenues and other issues...whatever happen to the fact that it is a high risk job.

Oops at 37,000ft ain't worth a damn!!!:mad:


atp