Well said my fellow furloughed waterskier.

We need an industry wide sick out day, with all airlines participating. On reserve?? You call out sick too!..bring the nations air travel to an abrupt stop..if that doesn't get managements attention..it could be done several times. What are they gonna do fire us all?....ok ok fine this is jjust a drunken idea but you have to admit it would be pretty funny to see the airlines execs faces when they found out what happened...:eek:

I'm not trying to justify any work conditions, but a lot of people fail to realize that no matter the career field, you must pay your dues. A lot of this generation, and the one coming up, have a sense of entitlement. The only thing you're really entitled to is death. You must earn your way in this world, even if it is having to scrape by on $20k a year for a couple years.

And in this mentality lies one of the problems. Wasn't flight instructing, mapping, traffic watch, pipeline patrol, fish spotting, jumper pilot, banner towing, air ambulance, freight dogging, or insert here, part of paying those dues. It's sad when you have 3 year FOs on 50 seat jets making $37 X monthly minimum because of outsourcing and downsizing. 4 year degrees, $30,000-50,000 in flight training debt to make $32,000 after 4-5 years as a Proffesional/commercial aviator. My aunt makes more as a cashier at Safeway. Flying is great, but there needs to be a voice of reason to advocate for the betterment of the industry. As long as people are willing to leapfrog to the left seat to get to a major by working for less money, it's hard to believe this industry will get better. However, the tragic thing is, I don't see the workforce collectively identifying that the wages are substandard. Maybe that's why so many are leaving to be cops and firefighters. I take it 1st year CAL FO's are paying their dues? How about UAL 8 year FOs? The system is broken and sadly in the end for the majority of us, pointing a finger at the problem only does any good if you're in front of the mirror.

Exactly. The whole paying your dues is bunk. You'll never be able to accurately quantify it nor normalize it for differing labor conditions. The logical conclusion to the argument is working for free and still not satisfying someone's definition of "having paid your dues". Junior labor does not owe senior labor anything just like the market doesn't owe anybody a job. So put the pay your dues argument to rest already. The market is not sensible to moral adjudications, get over it.

That said, if people want to have a career where one can sustain a household they have to stop taking the job for 20K. In the absence of that, things will never get better. Sometimes you're just priced out of a job and that's life. I know I can't afford to take on a flying job for 20K for a year, let alone an aggregate decade of under-compensation. Tough luck. But people's unwillingness to accept that circumstance indirectly contributed to colgan and it infuriates me. We need to cut off the student loan racket. I guarantee you first year FO pay goes up the second you restrict the availability of debt to the zero to hero crowd. Just an idea and it will also help the general labor market as well as it will have the same net effect upon the current devaluation of the undergraduate college degree. Just an idea to fix the problem.

I happen to love my job as an FO and I am proud to work for who I do.

Does this mean I am a bastard and should be drug out into the streets and shot because I am not doing my part to raise the bar for everyone else by accepting my pay check.

How about this. We all knew what the pay was like when we signed on. I am sure you talked to enough people to know what the work days were like. I am also sure that you heard about some of the bad things but ummmmm..... every single one of you still showed up on day 1 for training.

Nobody is putting a gun to your head forcing you to be at work everyday.

If it is so miserable for you then quit because nobody likes to sit next to someone for a 3 or 4 day trip or whatever it is and listen to someone whine about how they are so hard done by.

Regardless of what is going on at your company the important things still hold up. Do your job and fly safe and avoid ending up in the dirt. Do you wanna be the next crew that lights one up because you were talking about arranging a national sick out? I doubt it.

Another idea mentioned on here that may seam foreign to some folks is also try to look and act like you are a professional. The first step in getting respect from folks is looking like you deserve it.

I am not saying bend over and take it from "the man" but you did sign up for that job and I bet you were excited to do it back on day 1.

There are many professional pilots hoping and working towards better pay. Some of them are union members, the guy sitting next to you in the cockpit, or guys who deadstick airplanes into rivers.

Just because we are paid crap doesn't mean we have to look like crap. Hotels have irons. They're free of charge to use! Wake up 5 minutes earlier and press your shirt and slacks. Turn the Ipod and bluetooth off while walking through the terminal and keep your shoes shined a bottle of kiwi shoe polish costs all of about $4 cut out one cup of Starbucks and there you go.

Most of us take our jobs seriously. Perception has a lot to do with it in the public's eyes. If you want to be paid for the part you have to look the part.

I've seen Legacy pilots with the same spiked hair and iPod. However I think this is an indictment on society in general. You gotta love it when passengers show up in pajamas and their carryon consists of a trash bag.

Hahaha! You can take off your blindfold and come back into the real world now.

This is already being done due to the fact that banks and lenders now require you to have an excellent, established credit history. What young student is going to have that?