Embarrassing
 

Ill tell you, after all this Colgan stuff came to light, with low pay, low pilot skills etc, i have been hearing such comments and the Mcdonalds makes more, why would anyone do that job etc.

Not proud to be a pilot.

Then don't be one anymore. I am very happy with my decision to be a pilot, not necessarily the airline I chose to work for, but still. I would much rather be driving an airplane right now then be sitting on my couch at home unemployed. If it embarasses you that much, I will gladly trade places with you.

And thats why conditions will never improve, always someone to take your place for subpar wages and qol. Management loves this.

No... Embarrassing is being in ATL yesterday and seeing a Pinnacle pilot with big old "Dog the Bounty Hunter style" sunglasses sitting on the back of his head, a huge silver belt buckle, Doc Martin style shoes, and listening an MP3 player while walking through the terminal. Embarrassing is seeing pilots walk through a terminal with their shirts dirty and half untucked. Embarrassing are the past couple of accidents, and how pilots had total disregard for flying their aircraft safely. Have some pride in yourself and your career (regardless of how much you make) and the public perception will shift.

I'm very proud to be a professional pilot, and you'll see that pride in everything I do related to my career. If you're not proud to be in this career, you should switch careers.

Agreed 100% We need more of THIS in this industry I so dearly love and dedicated blood, sweat and tears for! Kudos to you sir.

You, like dozens of other pilots with your mindset, are the reason why our profession will never improve. If we all unifiy together to improve our work rules, this profession could improve.

Sadly, there are too many pilots who still have not gotten into the 121 world, and are impatiently waiting to do anything possible to get there (or others like you who had a brief taste).

After being abused for 6 or 7 years though, you will realize how badly things need to improve. But it will be too late, some eager young flight instructor will be more than willing to replace you at your job and fly for a terrible contract for pennies on the dollar. The cycle repeats itself again.

There should be a massive strike from all the regionals pilots.Better pay better conditions.I bet you the money for raises will show.

I agree. I don't know if it's a generational thing or what, but it's not just the airline industry where you see what seems to me to be general sloppiness and a lack of self-respect in the work-force. If you look like you don't care about yourself, your job and quality of work, no one else will either. You will not get any respect, from the public or your management.

now THAT would be the bomb. i have no 121 experience, but if that were to happen, I'd come fight the machine.

So are you trying to say that you had no idea about the pay until the Colgan accident, if so you're a little behind the curve there.....I refuse to agree with the comment that regional pilots have "low pilot skills", some have made bad decisions but the skills were there.

I agree totally. If you put credit card readers in the cockpits of some of these planes... and require payment by the pilot in order to complete the starting engine checklist... half of these guys on here would probably swipe until the magnetic strip right wears right off.

Let's be reasonable, I'm sure we can come up with some sort of flat rate deal.

I agree to a point, though its near impossible not to have a wrinkled shirt after flying 8 legs in 15 hours with no APU. Its difficult not to have a stain of oil/grim on the back of your shirt after preflighting 8 times. Its very hard not to have stains on your shirt from the fast food you had to eat on the flight deck during your cruise which was only 15 mins.

Our world has two classes. Guys who work like dogs and guys that dont. I give the guys that hump it 5 plus legs a day a little latitude.

If you're getting oil on your shift after 8 CRJ preflights, you're probably doing it wrong. :D

NEWSFLASH!!!!!
The flying public doesn't care what our salaries are!!!!!!!!!!!!! There is no consideration on their behalf, so stop believing there is a public interest story here.

If you honestly believe that a passenger considers what the pilots are being paid before he/she buys that $100 ticket on Expedia to fly from NY to LA, then you seriously have misunderstood capitalism and the art of subcontracting.

Sad, but true.

Like getting kicked when you're down.... I know.

Wonder how many pax pop their head into the cockpit now before boarding a regional / turboprop to see the "experience" of their crew.

Wondering also how those slobs I flew with at the regionals back in the late 80's and early 90's (or their equivalent today with the backpacks and ipods) who took 0 pride in their uniform, and 0 pride in their appearance are being viewed by the public..

I don't think they do not care. The public is forced to trust that we are safe and professional. Do you think Grandma has any means if figuring out who the "good" airlines are when buying her ticket? The public only trusts that the FAA is looking out foe them. Last week's shocker that we make peanuts won't make the public suddenly change as there is no means for them to. Only by the government or the airlines themselves can the public be assured pilots are trained and paid well.

Should have read this before I posted... Amen brother. It was a sad day for me when DAL told me no (I fumbled the 3 on 1 interview questions)..

I wanted to join the ranks of a truly professional pilot group. Alas, maybe some day I will.

Jetstream 41, while inspecting the gear.

Hum, don't know what to say. sort of "don't like your $18,000 a year job, give it to me, I'll do it'...

Could not have said it better myself. It is almost always amongst the regional pilot ranks as well. It makes the rest of the regional pilots who take pride in how they present themselves as an airline pilot look bad. I especially love the sunglasses on the head, the ipods, the numerous livestrong type bracelets (one is enough and the livestrong one is out), improperly colored shoes and or/belt (silver goes with silver and white bars, gold goes with gold bars), white socks, long hair, and 3-day old beard (i'll let a day old slide on the fact that they may have a reduced rest overnight). If you are one of these, please stop. I know it won't increase our pay and won't make us look "more experienced", but it will make us look more professional as a whole.

Ok... maybe the shirt stain comment was a little off. I know about shirt stains from a preflight... I fly the -88! :)

That was funny. I lol'ed.

Try avoiding it on the FFOD now when the TSA requires the aft equipment bay checked

Try avoiding it on the FFOD now when the TSA requires the aft equipment bay checked

It is obvious that my post was taken in the wrong context by most everyone that has read it so far. I do not want to accept under par wages in this industry any more than anyone else that has put so much of their time and energy in to it. But pride and pay are two different things.

I am not willing to take a job at the expense of someone else by doing it cheaper just for the sake of being able to fly an airplane. If I felt that way, I would have applied across the hall when I found out that I was getting furloughed. However, I enjoy what I do for a living and I am proud of the fact that I am a pilot. It has nothing to do with whose airplane I am flying, it is just simple pride in the work that I do, period.

And I would much rather be on the payroll right now as opposed to being furloughed so that I would be able to cast my vote for a strike in an effort to try and improve things. It is time that we take a stand, stand together, and let management know that we are here for the fight, and we either negotiate a fair contract or we walk.

Don't misunderstand what I am saying as what many people new to the industry are willing to do. I was abused part 135, abused part 121 for the last 2 years and I am happier sitting on my couch at home than helping contribute to the demise of the indsutry. I am just bummed about being on the ground on such a nice day, that is all.

Explain that to the passengers on 3407

*for some, not all

I complain a lot but I would rather do nothing else (Other than maybe a life as a blues/rock-funk guitarist)!

I was abused before I was furloughed and again since I've been back. I was much happier being unemployed getting to do whatever I wanted whenever I chose. But in the long run I'll be much happier with a steady paycheck and building flight time.

Will if flying wasn't the most fun one can have with your pants on, I guess we won't have this problem either. :p

Well said my fellow furloughed waterskier.

We need an industry wide sick out day, with all airlines participating. On reserve?? You call out sick too!..bring the nations air travel to an abrupt stop..if that doesn't get managements attention..it could be done several times. What are they gonna do fire us all?....ok ok fine this is jjust a drunken idea but you have to admit it would be pretty funny to see the airlines execs faces when they found out what happened...:eek:

I'm not trying to justify any work conditions, but a lot of people fail to realize that no matter the career field, you must pay your dues. A lot of this generation, and the one coming up, have a sense of entitlement. The only thing you're really entitled to is death. You must earn your way in this world, even if it is having to scrape by on $20k a year for a couple years.

And in this mentality lies one of the problems. Wasn't flight instructing, mapping, traffic watch, pipeline patrol, fish spotting, jumper pilot, banner towing, air ambulance, freight dogging, or insert here, part of paying those dues. It's sad when you have 3 year FOs on 50 seat jets making $37 X monthly minimum because of outsourcing and downsizing. 4 year degrees, $30,000-50,000 in flight training debt to make $32,000 after 4-5 years as a Proffesional/commercial aviator. My aunt makes more as a cashier at Safeway. Flying is great, but there needs to be a voice of reason to advocate for the betterment of the industry. As long as people are willing to leapfrog to the left seat to get to a major by working for less money, it's hard to believe this industry will get better. However, the tragic thing is, I don't see the workforce collectively identifying that the wages are substandard. Maybe that's why so many are leaving to be cops and firefighters. I take it 1st year CAL FO's are paying their dues? How about UAL 8 year FOs? The system is broken and sadly in the end for the majority of us, pointing a finger at the problem only does any good if you're in front of the mirror.

Exactly. The whole paying your dues is bunk. You'll never be able to accurately quantify it nor normalize it for differing labor conditions. The logical conclusion to the argument is working for free and still not satisfying someone's definition of "having paid your dues". Junior labor does not owe senior labor anything just like the market doesn't owe anybody a job. So put the pay your dues argument to rest already. The market is not sensible to moral adjudications, get over it.

That said, if people want to have a career where one can sustain a household they have to stop taking the job for 20K. In the absence of that, things will never get better. Sometimes you're just priced out of a job and that's life. I know I can't afford to take on a flying job for 20K for a year, let alone an aggregate decade of under-compensation. Tough luck. But people's unwillingness to accept that circumstance indirectly contributed to colgan and it infuriates me. We need to cut off the student loan racket. I guarantee you first year FO pay goes up the second you restrict the availability of debt to the zero to hero crowd. Just an idea and it will also help the general labor market as well as it will have the same net effect upon the current devaluation of the undergraduate college degree. Just an idea to fix the problem.

I happen to love my job as an FO and I am proud to work for who I do.

Does this mean I am a bastard and should be drug out into the streets and shot because I am not doing my part to raise the bar for everyone else by accepting my pay check.

How about this. We all knew what the pay was like when we signed on. I am sure you talked to enough people to know what the work days were like. I am also sure that you heard about some of the bad things but ummmmm..... every single one of you still showed up on day 1 for training.

Nobody is putting a gun to your head forcing you to be at work everyday.

If it is so miserable for you then quit because nobody likes to sit next to someone for a 3 or 4 day trip or whatever it is and listen to someone whine about how they are so hard done by.

Regardless of what is going on at your company the important things still hold up. Do your job and fly safe and avoid ending up in the dirt. Do you wanna be the next crew that lights one up because you were talking about arranging a national sick out? I doubt it.

Another idea mentioned on here that may seam foreign to some folks is also try to look and act like you are a professional. The first step in getting respect from folks is looking like you deserve it.

I am not saying bend over and take it from "the man" but you did sign up for that job and I bet you were excited to do it back on day 1.

There are many professional pilots hoping and working towards better pay. Some of them are union members, the guy sitting next to you in the cockpit, or guys who deadstick airplanes into rivers.

Just because we are paid crap doesn't mean we have to look like crap. Hotels have irons. They're free of charge to use! Wake up 5 minutes earlier and press your shirt and slacks. Turn the Ipod and bluetooth off while walking through the terminal and keep your shoes shined a bottle of kiwi shoe polish costs all of about $4 cut out one cup of Starbucks and there you go.

Most of us take our jobs seriously. Perception has a lot to do with it in the public's eyes. If you want to be paid for the part you have to look the part.

I've seen Legacy pilots with the same spiked hair and iPod. However I think this is an indictment on society in general. You gotta love it when passengers show up in pajamas and their carryon consists of a trash bag.

Hahaha! You can take off your blindfold and come back into the real world now.

This is already being done due to the fact that banks and lenders now require you to have an excellent, established credit history. What young student is going to have that?