This has the potential of getting nasty very fast... I've already heard captains suggesting they'll be checking the nonrev lists before flights and bumping them for more fuel if we get screwed on our nonrev benefits.

I am one of them. I will do my best to prevent any non-rev person from getting on a 9E aircraft. Sorry, it's nothing personal.... extra C-Fuel, Please! I've never managed to weight-restrict a CRJ-900 but there's never been a better time than June 23, 2009.

It's even easier to weight restrict a 200.. All you really need in an alternate sometimes.

What about commuters? You're still in CASS, so I would strongly suggest not starting a Jumpseat war with other carriers while you still have fellow pilots trying to get to work on them. Non-rev I can understand, jumpseaters I cannot.

I hope you don't really think people equate non-revving and jump-seating? I sure don't.

You want to get somewhere, you better start using a jumpseat pass on a 9E flight, because starting June 23rd, non-revvers can hang out at the gate and wait for another carrier's aircraft.

I don't see how anybody feels that denying boarding or avoiding the ability of non-revs (adding ALT or C-fuel) will really be something that would help us. All we would do is alienate ourselves from all mainline and DCI carriers. The company will start calling every pilot in for meetings, and NOTHING positive will come out of the issue, only harsh feelings towards us- which would "reciprocally" make life horrible for all of OUR commuters.

Better method that it appears we may need to go to.... FORCE the company to give us same/comparable benefits to the other DCI non-wholly owned carriers. It may not be ideal (we will always want more), but it would be something difficult to begin with.....

The only way to make it contractual is to REQUIRE it to be contractual. It may require corp to re-negotiate with Delta, but if it's what the pilot group wants and needs it becomes a very important point. I live in base and have no kids, my parents don't need/use my benefits, and I don't take vacations of standby. Do I really care about the travel benes?- NO, but it matters to many of my close friends, most of our commuters, and the vast majority of our pilots- therefore it begins to matter to me.

Current contract language: Section 26. (Page 78)

D. PASSES
1. A pilot will be granted no less favorable interline and on-line privileges
than those of any non-management employee group. The Company will
use its best efforts in securing interline passes and reduced-rate
transportation.
2. The following pilots and their immediate families will be granted spaceavailable
passes and "buddy" passes on all revenue flights operated by the
Company, in accordance with the Company's Pass Policy:a. active pilots,
b. furloughed pilots not flying for another airline and pilots on
medical leave of absence, for the first 120 days of furlough and
medical leave,
c. retired pilots not flying for another airline whose combined age
(with a minimum age of fifty-five (55)), and years of service equal
or exceed seventy (70); and,
d. pilots on leaves of absence, for the first sixty (60) days of such
leaves.
3. The Company will not charge pilots and their immediate families for
passes on Company aircraft.
4. The term "immediate family," as used in this subsection, will include the
following:
a. the pilot’s spouse,
b. the pilot’s children and stepchildren under the age of twenty-one
(21);
c. the pilot’s children and stepchildren under the age of twenty-five
(25) who are enrolled as full-time college students; and
d. the pilot’s parents.
5. When a pilot becomes deceased his spouse, his children and stepchildren
under the age of twenty-one (21), and his children and stepchildren under
the age of twenty-five (25) who are enrolled as full-time college students,
of deceased pilots will be entitled to passes on the same basis as the family
members of active pilots for ten (10) years following the pilot's death. If
the deceased pilot’s spouse remarries, however, the spouse forfeits all
rights under this provision.



Anything less than this becomes a "concessionary contract" in my opinion. The MEC is already aware of the problems that are going to arise if there is no improvements over the current pass travel "leaks" that the pass bureau has been saying are coming on the 23rd of June.

non rev...jumpseat.. what does it matter ...you start ****ing off DL and or other DCI carriers.. .and it will all end up the same.... you wont win this fight with a punitive action against other pilots and their families... this will only end badly in that case.

Have you guys received any printed confirmation on this new pass travel policy yet? I haven't been to work in a few days, but I haven't received anything that I know of. Seems like we'd have some facts in the v-files if new policy starts June 23rd.

By the way, I think this "denying tactic" is going to cause us way more problems and probably no resolution. Please reconsider the consequences of what you're proposing. I'm guessing you don't commute to work on non-Pinnacle Airlink/DCI carriers? Denials work both ways and even though you're saying 'just non-revvers' it's going to start an unnecessary jumpseat war anyway.

This makes me laugh. Our pilots are great at talking a good game, but come on, no one is going to deny anyone getting on board.

Here's another great rumor.....
Has anyone heard anything to the effect of Messaba and Compass getting priority on the jumpseat list, even on our own flights?
Someone mentioned that to me and I reminded them that it is a rumor, however if it came true can you imagine the guys getting denied the j/s....

Well what can we do? Deny only our management? What do they care? Can we convince all the other DCIs and DL to deny our management a ride? Really, if an ASA guy is ticked off, he'll maybe bring it up with his MEC or management, and then our MEC will hear about it.... if someone's got a better idea, let's hear it!

And no, I don't commute, but from the times I've "tried" it... it sucks. Oh well....

Well, let's just hope the company gets their act together before June 23rd.

Pre-emptively, we need to gather the benefit details of other non-owned DCI carriers and compile them in a pdf or doc format for circulation to the pilot group if it becomes necessary...because I am almost 100% certain when they eventually release the details of the new system, they will lay all blame on mainline, and take no responsibility, and try to say they "had no choice." Which we all know is at least 90% BS.

I sincerely hope the union will counter any company memo removing themselves from blame with a memo outlining our new system alongside those of other non-wholly owned regionals...just to make sure it is very clear that the company DID have a choice in the matter.

But what is this ASA guy's jumpseat committee going to be able to do about our management's Air Service Agreement with Delta? Nothing. Phil Trenary does not care if someone from Comair/SkyWest/ASA/Mesaba/etc... got denied on our flight.

And how about offline non-revs? How do you think offline non-revvers are going to treat us when they're working our gates, throwing our bags, pushing us back, and going the extra mile to help our families get on-board? They're not. We barely have a ground station footprint in this industry anymore and those are folks I'd rather not mistreat. Again, they haven't done anything wrong. Why punish them? How would you feel if Delta denied you a jumpseat because you were one of "those Pinnacle guys".

The only solution to this problem is the company following our current contractual agreement and having the same or better in the new one. If that'll be enforced, well, I guess we'll see.

Ok.... let's level the playing field this way then. If our management is so shrewd enough to negotiate a contract with DL that essentially has no "benefits" travel-wise for the employees, I'm sure that Phil is shrewd enough to say, "hey, Richard, I'm sure you could save some cash by just eliminating all employee non-rev travel for DL mainline and DCIs".

Mr. Big-Iron-Driver (and I mean that in a completely non-condescending way), what would *you* suggest as the best course of action if your benefits were threatened as such. Are they negotiated into the JPWA? What about all you Comair folks, all you ASA and Skywest folks, etc?

I have accomplished something here.... to hear that we want to deny non-revvers has ticked off some enough into posting into this thread. That gets you thinking, hey there's a guy here who does the same crap we do but gets completely hosed.

And as far as flexing the contract balls, you should know more than anyone else that you can only flex them as far as the law allows.... hello lost pension! Hello gutted wages.... you guys just "let that happen" after 9/11.... yeah right! :rolleyes: No one lets that happen, you had it forced upon you, much like we're forced to wait and wait and wait until we can strike!

If you play the game of bumping nonrev's for no reason and being an arse you are showing immaturity and letting mgmt get their victory. Gotta think big picture. This issue is with OUR management, taking your anger out on everyone EXCEPT our mgmt will leave you alone at the bar... Cause you are not going to be on anybody's plane.

And thats the bottom line.

That would never happen. Might look good on paper to management/compass/mesaba, but maybe 1% of 9e captains might follow the rule...i know I wouldn't.

yuppers. the other DCI/delta blue collar peeps have 9+ other ways besides pinnacle to nonrev somewhere. **** them off and Pinnacle peeps will have zero options to nonrev somewhere.

The circle of life...

Starting a "non-rev war" is not practical, nor wise. Its not like we ever go to the gate and ask about non-revs and who they work for. It'll never happen. The only thing 9E mis-management cares about is $$$. They are not going to care one bit if we go out of our way to bump off line non-revs. What they will care about is a big old NO vote should any TA come our way with garbage pass bennies. I hope the rumors I've been hearing are wrong, but am fully prepared to use all my call in honest's and plead my case to the commuting committee should commuting become much more difficult due to the loss of priority on DL/NW.

I honestly don't think anyone at 9E will ever deny a non-rev...it won't happen...we can vent and get all angry at how unfair everything is, but the vast vast majority of captains are decent people who will do whatever possible to help other blue-collar workers like ourselves get on a plane...

99% of us would much rather welcome non-revs and jumpseaters from ANY airline than paying pax, because the traveling public is generally lazy, fat, stupid, and complains about EVERYTHING from the size of the RJ, the cost of their already-dirt-cheap ticket, and anything that goes wrong at all on the flight "why haven't we pushed back yet, why are we 1 minute late, why is this plane so small, why is it so hot in here?"

I would boot every paying passenger possible for a pilot, non-rev, and all of their extended families if I had the choice and wouldn't lose my job over it...until they start paying pilots (and rampers and FAs) a decent wage for what we all do, the "minimum cost, maximum complaining" traveling public is more to blame for things like us losing travel benefits than our brothers and sisters on groundcrews and at other airlines....

To everyone who is spending thier time here complaining about our contract, travel bennies, etc... please write an email to your CA and FO rep in your domicile. If they don't know what is important to you, they won't be able to fight for what you want. You know where to find all of their information from the Union site, if you don't send me a PM and I'll tell you how to find it. You elected them, now tell them what you want, this is how a democracy works, so take advantage of it.

Hi!

Interesting non-rev denial.

A guy from my last airline got bumped a couple of times off of Pinnacle because the airline was not on Pinnacle's list. Interestingly, the airline was on NWA and Mesaba's list, and in CASS, and would haul any CASS pilots on their jumpseat, including Pinnacle pilots.

cliff
NBO

Cliff,

Unfortunately a lot of captains here are pretty ignorant when it comes to the jumpseat. Most assume if you're not on the recip-agreement list then you cannot jumpseat with us. Not true. If you're CASS approved, then at the captain's discretion you are welcome aboard. He could have jumped with us.

Just not Gojetters
 

Any crew memeber trying to go home or work should be allowed to get on.. with a strong exception to Gojets... cass approved for Delta flights but not on 9E's aircraft.

I don't commute but fly with many that do and almost every single pilot that commutes does not even consider Pinnacle as an option if the flight is almost full. They say they have a better chance sitting on the john than in a CR2 jumpseat.

The compass/mesaba might have the same priority as mainline DAL and CMR on pinnacle but only after pinnacle pilots but ahead of other DCI carriers

I agree with this statement because my friends and I have been bumped off too many times from Pinnacle CRJ2 flights due to weight restrictions or gate agents too lazy to go back to the aircraft and make an accurate count of empty seats. We usually avoid 9E flights if we find out the flight is near full because we know chances slim we will get on, so we try to get a ride with either NWA/XJ/CZ or DAL/SWA flights operating on mainline aircraft, which usually works better.

This is not to say Pinnacle pilots are not friendly towards jumpseaters. Quite the opposite is true. In fact, from my own experience, Pinnacle pilots in general have been friendlier than Compass pilots towards XJ pilots. And we try to extend the same courtesy to Pinnacle pilots on our aircraft. Come to think of it, I have never left behind any Pinnacle pilot from XJ flight.

Its not Pinnacle pilots fault (99%) of the time if you don't get on. The CRJ200 (not sure about the almighty 9 :p) has weight and balance issues (nose heavy) and landing weight issues when you have an alternate airport.

The majority of Gate Agents for Pinnacle flights are Mesaba. A few of them think they control the jumpseat because ops tells them its weight restricted. They won't even tell the CA that there is a jumpseater. I would suggest you ask to go speak with the CA if this happens to you.

I know I do everything possible to get a jumpseater on.

And BTW
CONTRACT NOW!!!!!!

9E jumpseat has always been good to me. I once had a captain on 9E fly at a lower altitude to burn off fuel because of a landing weight issue, just so I could get on. This same captain was in the jumpseat on our flight on my next trip, and i turned down a meal so he could eat instead.

Nice bro! Wish there were more pilots like you and him!

Most try to get numbers to work but sometimes its just not going to happen as we are just trying to get down to weight with the pax in the back!