Pinnacle contract complete?
 

Sitting in recurrent at the CEC today, a little birdie with the initials FF came in to inform us that the contract was complete. Let's see what the other side of the table says during the conference call tonight!

Hope it turns out good!

upper management has always stuck their nose in my recurrent, said something every year and NONE of their rumors ever came true.....

We were getting -900's next year, in 2001 :)
EFB's in 2005 :)
etc.

oh yeah, he said "the" contract, not "pilot" contract......the contract with crappy pass bennies on DL, or the contract with how much they are paying the hotel downtown for the shareholders meeting, o the contract on PT's new lexus?

I'm skeptical too, but I'm just passing on what was said. Again, let's see what the union has to say about it on the conference call.

Not complete. Meeting again June 9th to I quote "Get it done one way or another"

it's official per the conference call.....no contract.

FF says a lot of things....

I think this is the most important part. To get it done one way or another is exactly what our negotiating guy said.

Its interesting the the final thing they are fighting over is scope. We have all seen what a lack of scope can do so you can imagine why the company would like to have loose language in the scope clause. He said that the rest of the areas rely on the completion of scope, and that once it is done the deal is done.

He sounded VERY optimistic about our new work rules. "BIG improvements in our quality of life" sounds like a really good start to me.

I'll believe it when I'm voting on it. Nothing personal, of course.

Yeah and he probably has some nice beachfront property in Nebraska to sell you too. He has been coming to new-hire and recurrent classes for years saying our contract is all finished up. Maybe he meant to say washed-up?

Good luck, guys!

The company's PROPOSALS are complete, but the last 6/7 sections that are mostly monetary (and typically the hardest to complete) have not been worked out yet (FF many times thinks that just because the COMPANY has it worked out that the other half will just step in line). If we do not see positive progress in the week of June you should see the NMB brought in. We can all expect a contract to get completed "at once" since all the compensation ties into each other. We can all hope for a contract to get done in June, but we still have the pass travel issue and the questions surrounding on how good the contract will be. If it is not a really good TA it is expected to get a NO vote and sent back. There is nobody here willing to "settle", especially after so long- we all will fight for a good contract, whether that means using the NMB to a strike with 99% support or the company settling on the fact that they have run out of political power and made the money on our backs.

Who said that? Union or PNCL? :confused:

In Other
 

In other words management plans on bringing in the ball and chain and swing it around the room until ALPA yells UNCLE.....


If true then June 9th is the day the 9-E has picked to do the final grind on the pilots moral.......my bet is when there is a contract to vote on it will be the management at 9E that will be victorious and ALPA and the pilots disappointed....mark my word.

That's the Pinnacle way.

The head negotiator for the union (ZC). During the call he sounded like we have some very good improvements.

Wonder why the company wants to get this done all of the sudden? Maybe because of the crappy economy and everyone is in fear?

Alaska management got what they wanted.........

I was told the compensation is pretty much worked out...2nd yr fo to $34; 18yr CA over $100....here's where a possible no vote comes in for me: Bonus to be paid in 2 installments, one this year and one next. Scope and duration is all their working on, with scope being the sticking point.

Lame! But by the time this thing is a settled the new contract probably won't be in effect until November or December anyways...

OUR 15 mill, continues to sit in the bank and add up interest...

also heard, remember this is rumor, that the 15 magically turned into 10mil.

i am not getting wrapped up in the signing bonus. dont get me wrong they owe me a ton of money. for example my second year here i flew 900 hours. If second year pay goes up 10 dollars then they would owe me $9000 just for my second year here.

here is the thing though. If the union agreed to drop it that much (which is just a rumor) then I would be 100 percent positive that they got that back somewhere else in the contract. QOL and work rules and pay are the most important things to me. I would like to upgrade here someday (not that i have a choice right now since there is no movement) but the reason i didn't upgrade a year or so ago is because i didn't want to be on reserve here again. The first 5 months or so i was here i was hardly ever home. I wasn't willing to go through that again. So working conditions and compensation are the most important things for my vote.

Don't sign a thing. Alaska just got 12% for Ca's and 16-30% for FO's...
Dig your feet in and refuse to sign anything less than an indistry LEADING contract, instead of an industry average contract.

From what I've been hearing I'm going to have to be strongly convinced of a YES vote.

Explain please :)

If our pass benefits go in the toilet like they are saying on the company board, then that contract had better be friggin golden. And by golden, I mean I get my own personal ball washer a'la Lewis Black........

The "one way or another" is this...... Either the week in June this contract is done, or we (the union) will continue down the path with the NMB. I have talked with both SE and heard from ZC from my dealings with Retirement/Insurance proposals and there is no "laying down" with this contract.

The signing bonus has not been figured out either because the financials aren't done, many times we can give up a little signing money in leu of a richer contract that down the line puts more money in the pilot's pockets. Remember who pays the bonus and who pays for "industry average labor costs".

Payrates are still open and HAVE NOT been TA'd on. Just as the negotiators have said payrates have alot attached to them. You want a 100% retirement match up to a high percentage? That's a lower hourly payrate, you want a higher payrate, that's a lower match. Of course we want high match and high rates but there is some "give and take" when it comes to rates. Either way we are NOT going to settle for less than industry standard, or even just industry standard with loopholes the company can and (shall, will, must) exploit. The company wants this done and sees the whole contract as a medium pizza, we want an extra large, but we will settle only for a large with some extra toppings put on.

If you have questions contact a LEC rep, MEC rep, or P2P committee member. Rumors are fun, but can really start people on an emotional rollercoaster when dealing with pay, QOL, and job security.


We may have to give up my pony to get a good contract for every pilot at 9E.

So the next time DW sends out a three page encrypted memo on how the intrepetation of extentions, fatigue, sick, mistrip, reserve, etc have all been suddenly changed the union will actually have a response besides, "um, well, we'll represent you in the carpet dance."? It would be nice if my time wasn't wasted to begin with for following our printed legally binding rules. Instead we're constantly threatend with diciplinary action if we don't comply with the 500th reinterpretation of whatever the airline feels like doing this week. This mickey mouse stuff doesn't go on everywhere.

By the way. The rest of the industry is complaining about pay, yet we're trying to match their wages. uhhhhhh? sure. It's a long way up from the bottom I guess.... :)

Keep in mind we are just NOW getting to the meat of the contract (the money). We have had a bear of a time getting the basic language and wording to get each section and subpart to be free of misinterpretation. Where many companies may work WITH the unions and employees to get the job done, our company is adversarial to the max. I personally have only seen the TA language for a few sections, but within those sections the wording and examples give greater benefits to the pilots and does reduce and eliminate the company's ability to "misinterpret change".

As far as payrates- they have not been settled, and simply "industry average" will not pass the vote with this group unless there is alot of soft money and pay protections to have the credit hours higher than simply block, otherwise we would still be industry sub-standard with a new contract. Let's wait and see a TA before we all start complaining.

Just heard from the CMR MEC that you guys are doing informational picketing today in MEM at the PNCL shareholders meeting. Best of luck guys!!

Yeah we are pickiting the share holders meeting in downtown memphis, come join us!

I would if I was still unemployed and furloughed, but I have students to fly with today here in New England and I first found out about this at about last night at 10pm:rolleyes:

I'm going to miss seeing Scott's "I'm Pi$$ed face" argh! Too bad I gotta work, enjoy the saucer afterwards- ask for Lauren (good looking brunette), tell her Ken sent you!

...you guys would wait this long for $34 an hour... and crappy work rules.. you guys should have them by the bals with the media attention right now

agreed...remember, this is rumor...lots of those floating right now. IF that's true, and no soft money attached....ESPECIALLY if the bonus comes in multiple "promised" installments...NO WAY. the bonus is all we have for sure when it's signed. Thats it. The contract can always change. Concessions anyone? Just ask Express Jet, Comair, Mesaba, Horizen, CHQ, etc....GIVE ME MY MONEY! They must pay for the last four years or we are telling them thanks for that and come back any time.
If I were MGMT: 1. Give pilots industry leading contract in exchange for low/no bonus 2. Pilots get excited; 3. Big payment comes due/taxes/unexpected mystery expense; 4. Get concessions to industry average and WHAMMO! Took those pilot suckers for all the money they should've got the last 4 years AND they end up with industry average/slightly above.
ALL WE HAVE FOR SURE IS WHAT WE WERE OWED. GIVE ME MY MONEY!
Also, hope COLA is in the next contract.

A note about the crappy flight bennies....Right from benefits mouth.."Registered companion program will be dropped June 23" ...ugh

I don't for a second believe what the pass travel chick told me, that "they've been trying to get Delta to give us more benefits, but they wouldn't budge" or something to that effect (well, maybe that's what upper mgmt told her too) ...we're the company that "got back" 900s through the good ole' boy network at a time when Delta was making the most route cuts it has in years...I highly suspect PT could've made one phone call and got "industry average" pass travel for us. Heck, knowing this company Delta might have offered the same thing ASA and Skywest has, but management prolly said "uhh, could we just get a crappy system and $50 and a case of Schlitz instead?"

What do you consider "industry average"?

DL/9E is proposing getting rid of our parent travel benefits as well as only 3 intl travel days and no buddy passes. Worse than any non-owned connection carrier.

What part of no one cares does Alpa and 9-E Pilots not understand....

..........CS and PT and the shareholders don't care. You can come over and info picket the CO on NON-C 24 hours a day and buy up every billboard in MEM, DTW and MSP and the end result is......NO ONE CARES....The passengers could care less as well they only care that they are getting a cheap airfare..

Think the shareholder had a long discussion about your problem..NOT

Time to grab your sack and tell Alpha stand up to the plate and either get this settled OR walk....9-E will understand the minute the bottomline stops coming in.

At this rate you still will be negotiating in 2011 for something you could have had in 2007....

Do Something Already.

FWIW the media attention and public reaction was interesting to watch. To see a clip of a barback downtown saying he makes more moving dozens of beers than pilots do moving dozen of lives at least works to shake off the phobia that we are overpaid and overworked just because we wear a tie and some bars on the shoulders.

I do wholeheartedly agree that the union "voice" that picketing reaches out with is not as loud as it was in past generations simply because of the changes in corporate america. Whereas many were part of a union or professional association in the past, it's in essence "every man for themselves" at this point in both the industry and US market both socially and economically.

Action is needed, but legal actions and utilizing the political climate, media and public attention, and the previous 5 years of performance compared to comparable "reward" industry wide would poise us to be able and force a strong contract above and beyond a payrate that happens to be in line with the current industry average.

Prater's claims since his reign has been to "Take it back" and it is my strong hope that his office also pushes not just the PCL MEC, but every MEC at every carrier to push for an increase in "industry average" using contracts that were prior to all the concessions of 9/11. The report card so far is not conclusive because Alaska has been able to secure improvements (although not extreme but higher than the previous concessions that were taken), while Mesa's latest idea of a contract got his signature- which to me is not a sign of "taking it back", nor is it a strong sign that his office is willing to force a hand at the national level for overall improvements in leu of simply a settlement.

Time will tell, and if a TA comes out that is not good in any way I will be a loudspeaker for the NO vote. I have had conversations with the negotiating cmte, the MEC, and with the chairman of cmte's that I am on and nobody is going for a "settlement". Committee wide there will be what you could call as a "sandbagging" if any committee is left in the dust as far as provisions proposed or overall concepts desired in a new contract. It's not all money but QOL, job security, and credit hours vs. block hours are all aspects that get the attention of the average pilot.

Industry average would be the same benefits that ASA, Skywest, Chq, and Freedom have on Delta at the same priority level as ASA, Skywest, Chatauqua, and Freedom. If there are differences among the travel programs at those carriers, I would say a blend of comparable benefits would be "industry average."

Parental non-rev (NOT just ZED), the same number of buddy passes, the same number of international travel days, and the same annual fee would be "indsustry average." Even this would be a concession versus the old Northwest system, which provided much much better privileges as I'm sure you're aware...who cares that the phone system is old and out-dated...I'll take parental non-rev, unlimited international non-rev, buddy passes, and registered travel companion in lieu of a spouse or partner ANY day over the BS we're being hosed with now.

We are being told by our travel office that effective June 23rd, we lose all parental non-rev privileges, reduce to 3 international travel days annually, lose all buddy passes, and lose registered travel companions.

So there will soon be CRJ-900s owned by 9E and flown in Delta colors carrying Skywest buddy pass riders and parents in the empty seats, and "non-dependent" Delta children and step-parents too, but we won't get the same courtesy on mainline or other DCI flights on otherwise empty seats...

What's funny is our current ZED agreement with DAL is Zone Medium...we fly Zone Low on other airlines like CSA Czech...

So my parents will soon fly cheaper on a Czech airline than they will on the mainline carrier my regional feeds...ridiculous