FAA issued Colgan warnings
 

NYT: FAA Inspector Issued Warning a Year Before Clarence Crash WNED News BUFFALO (2009-06-03)


More than a year before the February crash of Flight 3407 in Clarence, an inspector with the Federal Aviation Administration raised concerns about test flights involving Colgan Air.

The New York Times reports the inspector complained to his superiors that during flights in the Bombardier Dash 8-Q400, Colgan crews were flying fatigued and were not fully focused. He told the Times that pilots "got confused" during 2008 test flights in the plane. It was the same plane that crashed on approach to Buffalo-Niagara International Airport the night of February 12, 2009.

Issues of fatigue and pilot training were discussed during recent hearings on the Clarence crash.

After reporting his concerns, the inspector says he was suspended from his job and given desk work.

Colgan Air tells the paper that the inspector's claims against the airline are "baseless."

The crash of Flight 3407 killed all 49 people on the plane and one person on the ground. The cause of the crash remains under investigation by the National Transportation Safety Board.
© Copyright 2009, wned

When it comes to the airlines (big business), all the feds can do is say "pretty please...............with sugar on top".

This sounds fishy. Because we know Colgan is so powerful in the regional airline world they have the power to have a FAA inspector transfered to desk work if they want. Colgan is so powerful, they have pull over everyone and was responsible for GM filing for BK.

Colgan's are the only people to ever strike fear into the heart of Chuck Norris.

Isn't Colgans chief pilot Bill Brasky?

I don't think you'd have to be that powerful. Just slip someone $50K in cash or take them on some nice golf trips and I'm sure things will start slipping through the cracks

That's because the Colgan's could eat Chuck Norris

That's funny and mean

Only if you could fit Chuck Norris into a McDonalds McGriddle.

I have 2 questions for Colgan guys, I can't PM so a yay or nay will do

1) Did JW (check airmen from Norfolk) bust P-51 and get fired?
2) did JS get the shaker with a check airmen after the Colgan crash and get fired?

Yay to both

affirm to two both those

Your kidding me right!!!!!!!! Is it a common occurance for you Colgan guys to go to stick shaker? How often do you do it, once a trip? Jeez!!

Question for Colgan guys.

Do you guys fly REF on landing of do you split the bug between REF and REF/ICE?

In all my years in the business, the only time I've ever seen the stick shaker is in the sim. Are you guys serious? This is downright scary.

Indeed, Bill Brasky was the Chief pilot for Colgan, however, they offered him a leave of absence because he was constantly eating passengers and that was throwing off the weight and balance of the beech 1900's. Thus always landing out of CG.

On a side note, I once saw Brasky eat the bible while water-skiing.

Bored and Emb,

Just from reading previous post by both in other areas, I'm "assuming" you're both former QX Q400 drivers?

I ask because I started reviewing Colgan's SOP in the NTSB docket...from what their SOP calls on an approach with verticle guidance, it says they are to be configured and "Before Landing" checklist complete no later than 1nm to the FAF.

Sounds to me like they are getting the airplane too slow before starting down on the GS...

Any opinions?

Yes.

That was my first impression after hearing about all these stick shaker occurances. You really gotta be behind that plane to get it that slow. It's really not a hard airplane to fly if you are paying attention.

I aslo assume that if they are flying at REF on landing then it's pretty easy to approach stick shaker. Horizon teaches Q400 pilot to split the bug between REF and REF ICE.

FYI, REF ICE isnt an Ice speed. It's just how its labled in that plane. Kinda like V-AP in in some jets

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

hahe, i've been told I fly the airplane sooo slow in cruise that i'd might as well ride the Shaker on and off the whole time. Block or Better!

Yes.

One knot below REF and someone should be saying something, no action taken and I would be assuming control and pushing the power levers up no matter what seat I am sitting in.

It sounds plausable that if they are infact fully configured prior to the FAF (waste of airspeed and money if you ask me) that they could be trying to avoid major power changes prior to GS intercept.

Unfortunately, some pilot still believe MONEY is a factor in decision making. I think it is not true. I hope this comment about saving money is overlooked. Ignorant.

No not ignorant. Almost everytrip I flew was based on Time Away From Base so I was not out there to "get paid by the hour" My job is to get an airplane from A to B as efficiently and safely as I want and can. Slowing down to VREF 7 miles out and driving in with a lot of power is a waste of time and money. It isn't Ignorant. I am not the one hitting the stick shaker. I am the one who called for flaps 30 at a thousand feet cause thats what my SOP's said I could do.

In addition the comment was based more towards managment having an less safe procedure that actually costs the company money.

YES! someone got it!:D

Just to clarify J.W from Norfolk got canned???

Airlines can manipulate a problem Fed back to a desk job.

Feds have to train and pass check rides on the Company's equipment. As it works out the problem Feds are usually the ones who have a problem showing proficiency in other areas. I'm not saying they were pushed, but the simple fact of the matter is that if they can't pass a proficiency check then their employment options are limited just like ours are.

Now that having been said, it is a VERY rare occurrence.

The general trend I've seen in law enforcement at every level is a tendency to really throw the book at the little guys, seeking the highest level of enforcement & punishment, while Corporations and the big guys get a wink and a smile. Just look at Bernie Madoff (which has resulted in over 50 billion in losses and several suicides) and all his buddies on Wall Street. Meanwhile first offense walking on an airplane with alcohol over the limit netted pilots ten years in prison.

I'm not defending that pilot. He should have called in sick before the trip instead of trying to tough out the death of his father and drinking his problems away the night before. Still - TEN YEARS - after the emergency revocation of all of his Certificates?

Yup, he is not on the latest seniority list. Looks like ol'crusty has yelled at his last FO

Heard that Duma$$ put 3 F/A's in the hospital.

dunno if it was 3 but i believe one or two on one trip.


"hes a 6'5" s.o.b. and wears a rattlesnake as a condom" lol

Bill Brasky showers in vodka and feeds his baby shrimp scampi!

I'd have to quit out of shame if I ever got the shaker in flight. yikes.

Stick shakers are not common at Colgan people. JS was a pilot who needed to go, period.

Keep in mind that this "whitsle blower" also failed his Q400 PC with Colgan, he was fired from CCAir in 1997 for landing at the wrong airport...I don't think he is anyone to be talking about good flying.

As for the overspeeds, this was discussed in the NTSB Hearing, see Day 1. The NTSB clearly saw there was no issue. And the flying with a broken radio, common practice at Colgan- gotta maintain the flight schedule, right Buddy?

Colgans chief pilot slept with my wife......and i loved him for it!

True!!

Double True!!

It is not the ref speeds that are the problem with getting slow.

Some pilots (the inattentive bad ones) when slowing down to configure will pull power near idle to slow below 200 in a descent so they can start calling for flaps and gear and then the airplane levels off and they never add power back in. In less than a few seconds the speed deteriorates to the shaker.

It is not an issue with the speeds we fly, the planes we fly, the training we get, it is an issue with some of the terrible pilots colgan has hired and have somehow remained on the seniority list after NUMEROUS issues.

As for the pilot monitoring catching it when the pilot calls for gear down etc or the landing checklist in the time it takes us to pull out or 9"X11" checklist that blocks out the outside world and read the appropriate items the speed can go from 200 to 100 if level. It happens fast. After watching the video of the controls during the crash I know choose to not read checklist or do anything during the times when it would be a possibility that the airplane could get slow such as the above mentioned scenario. It takes 5 extra seconds and ensures me and the 74 people behind me get home. It has never been an issue for me or any of the guys I have flown with but id like to keep it that way.

Well said.

Believe it or not guys, most Colgan guys are really good pilots. They were educated at the same universities as us and have seen the same things we have as we grew our careers. I wouldn't let a few bad apples spoil the entire bushell.

This may very well come out to show that Colgan did a bad job putting the Q400 into service. We already know about the Kindergarten CFM, thanks P.D. W (who is SCAB, btw). But keep the blame off the pilots, they were just doing what they could.

I tell you who I feel bad for is the competent pilots and all the SAAB drivers who look like fools because of this media fiasco, this whistle blower trying to get his name out there and flying around the airplane with the Captain America scheme on it for everyone to see Colgan Air.

JS, JW were Colgan lifers. JW used to go to Manassas on his days off to shoot the shyt. JS failed upgrade on the SAAB at CHQ, but Colgan had no problem hiring her, then failing 4 Q400 PC's, putting her in the left seat of it?!?! That was the old Colgan. The new Colgan I believe (from what I hear) will be more run like a real airline, by real people. Not Daddy's HS Grad Kids. MF and HM made absolute fools of the airline in Day 2 of the hearings, I feel EXTREMELY bad for you Colgan guys and gals. Keep doing your jobs as professionals and everything will work out just fine.

One more thing about Colgan's Pay...There is no way in HELL that the Average Q400 CA makes $67,000/yr. My year as a CA at Colgan on the SAAB I made $35,900...the Manager at McDonalds in LGA told me she made more.

seriously?:eek: or is that an exaggeration?:confused:

Sometimes the predictive nature of the stall warning system can, and most often does, go into flux and freaks out and ' runs home to mommy ' as jonesy puts it in the Hunt for Red October. The CRJ200 has a limitation, which is correct, that when you are vref flaps whatever +17 you need to avoid operation with spoilers deployed and flaps greater than 30. The aircraft can be safely flown in this regime, only very carefully and any deviation or large control inputs will result in the stick shaker momentarily activating.

Well said but I am have a issue with one part.

How many items is the landing checklist? Is it split into two sections? i.e. Above the line at gear down and below the line at final flaps? My issue is that when I flew the mega whacker, at gear down you had (I believe) 4-5 items on the list that max took 5-7 seconds to complete, half of that time you were heads up doing the items then verifying with the checklist. Below the line was 3 items that took maybe 5 seconds. I guess I am just rambling without a point. IF your guys are level and are going to idle with the power levers and such, this is a technique issue and needs to be nipped in the butt asap.

We are not level with the power out. Where the problem lies is SOME pilots will be at 4 and get the "cross XXX at or above 3,000 cleared for...." and they pull power back to slow to flap speed while starting their descent. Somewhere lost in the process the airplane hits 3 and levels off meanwhile their power is still back. That is where the problems have been. Again, it is a rare problem but it associated only with poor piloting technique and skill and a lack of attention to detail.

As for our landing checklist we do not have a line, none of our checklist has a line.

bleeds min on
aux ptu stby pumps on
fa notification complete
landing gear down three green
flaps set indicating
condition levers max

one may be out of order but its my day off and im not going downstairs to verify in my books.