JetBlue FO's paid more than Republic CA's!!
 

The new JetBlue rates for the E-190 are out and here is how they compare to the rates that Republic pilots agreed to fly the E-190 for. These will be rates they will be doing flying that used to be done by Midwest Airline pilots. What makes it really sad is that after year 3, JetBlue First Officers make more than the Republic Captains.

E-190 Rates
1st Year Jet Blue CA = $138/hr
1st Year RAH CA___ = $64/hr
1st Year Jet Blue FO = $47/hr
1st Year RAH FO___ = $23/hr
1st Year Jet Blue Total Cockpit = $185/hr
1st Year RAH Total Cockpit______ = $87/hr

4th Year Jet Blue CA = $143/hr
4th Year RAH CA___ = $75/hr
4th Year Jet Blue FO = $79/hr
4th Year RAH FO___ = $37/hr **This is the maximum pay for RAH FO's!
4th Year Jet Blue Total Cockpit = $222/hr
4th Year RAH Total Cockpit______ = $112/hr

Let me even go farther for you
12th Year Jet Blue CA = $159/hr
12th Year RAH CA___ = $96/hr
12th Year Jet Blue FO = $97/hr
12th Year RAH FO___ = $37/hr **still only $37/hr!
12th Year Jet Blue Total Cockpit = $256/hr
12th Year RAH Total Cockpit_____ = $133/hr[/QUOTE]

sad sad sad.............

very sad, but I am glad to see JB raise the bar for E190 payscales. Now hopefully US Air and RAH can follow suit

You posted this as if the RAH pilots just agreed to new payrates to fly the 190. Seriously dude...The RAH contract has been in place since 2003. Before the new JB rates came out, this huge pay difference did not exist. Quit trying to stir *******.

And you guys are in contract negotiations now. So lets see some action.

Oh you'll see some action, probably another paycut in exchange for some more 190's on property. Maybe even some 73's for their Hawaii operation!

BB

To quote Captain Barbossa........"AGREEED!!!!!":D

IF you're in negotiations JB has established some good ground to stand on regarding payrates. Do you have to match them? No, but dont sell yourself short guys. If the girl on the corner is getting paid 20 for the same service why would you take 10? :D

This is a good point! Also what ever happened to companies RAISING payrates in a race to get the better pilots??? I remember this happening a while back and was exciting to see. I think if I remember correctly United was in negotiations and raised rates which caused, I believe, it was Delta who was in contract negotiations to raises rates etc! I wish we could see this industry wide!

"Probably another paycut..." The use of the word "another" would imply RAH pilots have already taken a paycut. Could you enlighten the rest of us as to what paycut you speak of?

As for the whole we're in negotiations so let's see some action thing, these things don't happen overnight. Everyone on here should know that by now. While the internet and news travel at the speed of light, and things in this world are changing at an ever-increasing pace, contract negotiations will always progress at a snail's pace, for whatever reason.

You guys agreed to fly the 190 for those rates. No one else forced you to do it.

THAT is true. That wasn't a horrible deal in 2003.

For flying aircraft up to 99 seats it was a horrible deal.

The FO pay scale was messed up a little, I'll give you that much.

Well....two things come to my mind:

JetBlue is not a "career" airline, IMHO.

That 4 year RAH CA has one kinda, sorta, important advantage....TT PIC time.

Wait, isn't JetBlue a major and republic a regional? Of course FO's at a major should make more than CA's at a regional.

Messed up a little? A little? $37 max an hour to fly the right seat of a 99 seat airplane is messed up a little!?! OI!!!!! If a union is going to negotiate a payrate, regardless of whether they expect to get the airplane or not, FO pay needs to be on par with rest of the industry. $37 an hour max FO pay for a 99 seat airplane in 2003 was way more then a little messed up.

Really...does there need to be a "mine is bigger than yours" thread when B6's payrates are already posted in another thread?

Like regionals, I think many JetBlue guys will make B6 their final resting spot. Especially those who were furloughed from a Legacy after 9/11 and went to JetBlue. Many are near the top or at least on the A320 holding a nice schedule.

it's called informing the masses my friend. And if you have any intentions to get paid what you deserve on that 900, I would let it happen and be very happy for this information to get out there.

I would argue that in today's day and age, it is definitely a career airline. JetBlue's A320 pay across the board is significantly greater than the United AND US Airways A320 scale, and most think that United and US Air are career airlines. Heck, a year 1 captain at JetBlue makes more than top-of-the-scale captain at either of these airlines.

Every airline should be a career airline.

Why shouldn't an ALPA carrier not only match, but aim to exceed, the level set by a non-union carrier?

Not to split hairs, but RAH is Teamsters. But they should ABSOLUTELY have to match JB rates. It's the right thing for them to do for themselves & the industry.

Yeah cause I am sure people want to spend 40 years working for Great Lakes. Regionals are meant for building time.

And why exactly is that?

I would be more than happy to fly 9 legs a day in a B1900- if it paid six figures. Hell- if I found a six figure job flying a Cessna 152- I would make that a career position.

When pilots start thinking outside of the mold and holding each other to higher standards, things will improve.

We are our own worst enemy when it comes to pay.

[/quote]
Why is it sad? Republic is a regional that flies 170's and 175's, B6 is, no matter what you say, a mainline carrier and flies 190's and 320's. ALL airline pay is too low, don't get me wrong, but why would these two companies be compared?

Why is it sad? Republic is a regional that flies 170's and 175's, B6 is, no matter what you say, a mainline carrier and flies 190's and 320's. ALL airline pay is too low, don't get me wrong, but why would these two companies be compared?[/QUOTE]

Ding, ding, ding!! I was wondering when someone would bring that up. JB rates? Eh, eh, not gonna happen. Close would be nice but...

[QUOTE Lowlevel]

Why is it sad? Republic is a regional that flies 170's and 175's, B6 is, no matter what you say, a mainline carrier and flies 190's and 320's. ALL airline pay is too low, don't get me wrong, but why would these two companies be compared?[/QUOTE]


Because they operate some of the same size equipment B6 does so it should be a goal to exceed B6 pay. It doesn't matter if they're a regional or a major.:mad: That attitude needs to change NOW!!! Unbelievable!!! :mad:

I am willing to stay off RAH pilots backs until they get the opportunity to negotiate new rates. But if substantial pay hikes are not achieved(minimum B6 match) I will have very little respect for them. Until then, good luck & safe skies.

Why shouldn't it happen? I think many guys @ RAH will stay mainly because they are happy in the E170s. With the E190 door now open that's even more that might stay. That means that not only should CAs worth about much better payrates, but FOs should worry even more because they'll be in the right seat for a much longer time. It would be foolish to start off with anything less then B6 rates + 1-2%.

Good because we care about what you think of us buddy.

Still upset about not upgrading? Maybe if you didn't apply for an airline that didn't pay it's FO's enough, you would be fine financially.

Great Lakes should be a great career airline. Why should people have to leave?

Because you are flying the same aircraft for half the pay.

In the words of Hot Fuzz. Maybe she's F' ugly.

Don't worry. I won't be the only one. What's sad is that your attitude implies that you don't care about this issue.

It's not that people don't care but it's the same non-stop endless babble where people act like RAH signed a contract yesterday for this and no matter how many times they're told why the contract exist as is they just seem to look past all that.

I wonder how things would be had the guys not fought for a single seniority list and sacrificed the pay on aircraft that didn't even exist to make it happen. With two airlines whipsawing each other go jets might seem like a dream environment compared to what could exist.

Ummm? Why did Republic pilots agree to pay their FO's only $37 for flying jets up to 99 seats?

You know the Midwest pilots were offered their jobs for those rates and they turned it down. Do the Republic pilots just not have the guts like them or something? Is that what you are trying to say?

I understand your guys frustration. Youre getting bombarded unfairly IMO as many of you weren't even employed by RAH when your current contract was signed.

I know where many of you stand on this issue, you included TD, from reading some of your previous posts. You have my support. It will most likely be a long battle, but I know many will want B6 or better. Safe Skies Guys.

I don't blame them either, but many of them come on here and make excuses for themselves and blame OTHERS. All they have to say is the pay sucks and they don't agree with it. However, they blame EVERYONE else. "It's mainline pilot's fault", "I didn't give up scope", "I'm not the one who didn't want to fly baby jets". Just say you don't like it either and leave it at that. Blaming the Midwest pilots, for something a judge decided, makes them look really bad.

You mean to tell me that after all your babbling you don't't know the answer to this? You don't know why these rates are like they are? Here's a bit of advise. Since you don't know go do a little reading. There are several threads where it's been posted time and time again why these numbers are the way they are. Heed and read.
Once again heed and read.

start here: Contract - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia to learn what a contract is and what the legal responsibilities of both sides are required to do by law. Don't turn right around and say you know what a contract is and understand it. If you did you wouldn't be asking what you just did.

After that go here:The Railway Labor Act That's for the Railway Labor Act. Once you read that you'll learn what legal actions labor groups can take. If you have any questions on the RLA feel free to ask and others can help.

I'll spell it out here and you can read those links to get a full understanding of why things are the way they are.

The Midwest guys were able to deny those aircraft for the same reasons XJT, RAH, Comair or anyone else can reject a NEW aircraft introduced to the fleet. The contracts have a clause that usually lays out the process a company must go through to introduce new aircraft. The unions can either agree or not agree on the terms the company provides. If a common ground is not found the aircraft don't get flown. When these aircraft were taken to the Midwest pilot group they exercised their right to say "no deal" to the company. So that was that.

Now lets look at RAH. RAH has three certificates which the company did not want on the same seniority list. The pilots here managed to avoid what happened with GoJets/Trans-states. In order to do that they had to wheel and deal with management just like Mesa did to get Freedom under the same roof. That included pay rates for aircraft that didn't even exist on property yet. Yes the pay isn't the best but that's the price of doing business. You don't always get what you want. You have to find a middle ground. The possible repercussions of not have a single seniority list far outweighed the pay scales for aircraft that weren't even here. Take a good long look at what is happening between GoJets and TSA. The TSA guys are getting screwed with their pants on because they weren't able to find a successful middle ground with the company. Now their management is free to do what they want basically. At RAH this isn't the case. By getting everyone on one seniority list it positioned the pilot group for the next move. Just like a game a chess. Unlike so many of you here the guys were thinking long term and not simply wanting more now now now now now. With a single seniority list the pilot group has everything they need to argue for better pay and work rules. This isn't something that happens overnight but it is something that's worth the wait. Once things follow the RLA the pilot group will then have the legal backing to strike if it should come to that and make a difference.

As of yet the RAH pilots have never had the opportunity to take any legal action against the aircraft coming on property. The Midwest contract had essentially no scope protection which allows them to show up so long as it's within the confines of our contract, which they are. I don't think anyone here is confused about how disgruntled you are with them being at RAH. However all your fingerpointing in the world doesn't do much with simple rants. Simply being the loudest one yelling doesn't mean it's accurate or right. Your flame-baiting has been noted. RAH does not pay as much as the majors do. There's a lot of reasons the pilot group accepted what they did and considering how others have failed at achieving what the RAH guys did, single seniority list integration, I think they deserve a pat on the back rather than slaps on the face. With multiple seniority lists and BB's ability to get business things could have been a hell of a lot worse. Hindsight being 20/20 those guys made the smart move and gave a little now to secure things later. It was an investment and a good play.

Asking why the "Republic pilots don't have the guts" shows that you don't have a full grasp on the legal actions groups can take. Please take the time and read the RLA and the link on Contracts. This isn't the first time I've had to point things out to you over your rants. Last time it ended with you asking if I expected you to actually spend time reading things. I'll go ahead and answer yes. Before you start pointing fingers and doing your best to belittle people you might want to actually crack a book. It doesn't make you look the best and you need to remember that in the future you'll be running into people from here at other jobs. Aviation is a small community so treat those in it with some respect. It's not a lot to ask for someone to be civil.