Options I have for the regionals?
 

hey guys, I'm currently a student at Delta Connection Academy and I moving very quickly in my training. I need to know the options that I have that can take me from my multi-engine rating to the regionals, besides becoming a flight instructor. Any help?

You've got to be kidding me, you're going to DCA and you are asking people for help here. You mean to tell me that you are paying DCA 80k for your ratings and they have no customer support to tell you about your future options in the regional industry?? No wonder DCA is the worst school out there, their own students are asking the world for help instead of the school itself.

140K @ ERAU
80K @ DCA

50K @ ATPS

ATPS seems like the better deal. Unless you really wanted a ERAU aviation degree.

-LAFF

I paid $80k for the ERAU flight training and degree combined, graduated 2 years ago. Has it really doubled in that time frame?!? Holy crap!

Oh, and about CFI'ing...don't do it at DCA. I hear they only make $10/hr. HAHAH! Sweet. At my last CFI job I was paid $16/hr and billed 150 average hours per month....

flight instructing is something that everyone should do. you will learn a ton as an instructor. I could have taken one of those RJ courses and gotten an interview with eagle or express when I had 500 hours but opted to do it the traditional way, I'm very happy with my decision. is seniority everything? yes. are you going to be an asset to a regional airline as a 500 hour first officer? no.

I agree with you 100%. When I first started teaching, not only did I learn a ton, I also learned how clueless I was as a commercial pilot up until then...

At this point finish your CFI certificates and ratings. Stay the course. Yes there are other methods but they're more risky and none will get you to a regional quicker. You'll learn a ton completing the CFI, especially in FSDO 15 (assuming you are at DCA's Orlando campus). It's a very large leap from Comm/ME/Inst to CFI/CFII/MEI. The knowledge and experience you'll gain are invaluable...and you are truly employable, admittedly not at a great salary, but at least the money flow reverses somewhat. Regional airlines have a general profile of a pilot that they understand. And being a CFI is part of it. You'll get hired at lower time if you are a CFI than if you are not. Hiring times are getting very low out here now with Express Jet and others getting down to the 500 hour TT mark. You won't be a CFI for long.

However, for your other options, take a look at the list of flight activities in 14 CFR part 119.1(e). That list is pretty much it. Anything else is going to require FAA paperwork and probably more flight time than you need for a right seat job at a regional.

Strongly agree. The more I learn about aviation the less I know...

I have a buddy that did the CFI/CFII/MEI there and it cost him 20 grand. And that was without repeated lessons. Personally, I'd jump ship for that kind of money...you can wrap up the three of them for something like $7k at ATP.

If you think about it, he's doing the smart thing by coming here and asking. All they will tell him a DCA is stay there. Do you really think that they would throw away money and tell him there are better ways? They're making money hand over fist with him and everyone else there, including myself at one time. When I quit after doing the CFI ground school I found a job flying a Jetstream. They flew the crap out of me, but I got to see the real industry, not what DCA wants them to see.

I know you definitely don't want to get involved with the CAPT (Commercial Airline Pilot Training) program. It may be named to something else in the near future, but regardless, don't go there. If they happen to not like you, they'll take your money, train you, but they'll hang you out to dry. Even if they do like you, you may still be hung out to dry since their post graduation job placement efforts suck more nuts than a cheap street ho. Be warned.

Hey ConnectionPilot. Sorry there are a lot of guys on here giving you a hard time. My advice is to get the cheapest training possible (which is not DCA) and get your CFI. The others are right, that is the quickest and best way to build experience. If you know someone who can hook you up with a ME charter job or something, then you could skip the CFI thing. You also have to understand something. I am not trying to bust your bubble, but just because you get your ratings, it is not like you have a choice of what regional you want to go to. The best thing to do is take the first job that offers better experience. Fly checks in a Barron. Go to a crappy regional like Colgan or Great Lakes. Although it is good you are thinking ahead, you are at least two years away from working for your choice of regionals, so for now walk a straight line and try not to put the cart in front of the horse.

The only problem with the flying checks suggestion that Flex has is that most of those operations will be single pilot 135 companies. Meaning that you'll need to find a way to build time up to that magical 1200 total for part 135 IFR mins.

I agree with being a CFI, then again I'm biased. It's amazing how well versed you become in the mechanics of flying and how much better you get when you're teaching it. I'm in that "the more I learn, the less I know" sentiment that was echoed earlier. Getting paid to build time isn't such a bad deal either.

Oh yeah i forgot about that. Thanks for the correction. However, I seem to remember AirNet hiring guys into the right seat somehow till they have 1200TT.

ConnectionPilot,

I was fortunate enough to be able to skip the instructor thing myself, and at times I feel like maybe I should have gone that route for some of the same reasons that the other guys are talking about. Such as, the more I learn the less I know, or learning the mechanics of flight in greater depth by being able to watch someone else screw up and have to find a way to help the student learn the correct way to do it. After all instructors don't teach, they show the student how to learn. So I learned in CFI ground at the 141 state university program I went through. I was able to get a job in the maintenance
hangar for the school I was attending just before I got my instrument and gained the experience required to get my A&P sign off while building time flying planes that had just been repaired or shuttleing them back and forth from the satellite campus to the main campus and the like. Got payed while getting discounts on training, and got to fly the Deans and Higher ups in the university. Then I got hired doing pretty much the same stuff for a company that leases aircraft to flight schools who don't have the capital to buy their own. I do all the maintenance flights for the hangar as well as deliver and pick-up planes to and from customers all over the country (true x-country time) in all kinds of weather in all kinds of airspace. I do all the flying, sometimes in a crew environment but usually not. I've flown with all kinds of instructors with all kinds of hours on acceptance flights and everytime am amazed at how far behind the plane most of these guys are. Not dissing on anyone here nor tooting my own horn but give me a break. I know I'm going to catch a lot of crap for "writing my life story" here, but simply telling you how I did it and that there are plenty of other ways to build your time and most importantly experience than sitting in the right seat saying more right rudder all day. Good Luck in whatever you decide to do.

Wow this is alot of helpful information. Even tho that might be your "life story" it helps me out. Its not that I don't want to be a CFI, its that I don't want to work for a school DCA for example, if its not going to be worth it. I've heard of Regional AA, and a few others, that I'm trying to look into right now.

I highly recommend that you go to Jet University. It worked for me and look who I fly for now! You can too by going there!




http://www.jetuniversity.com/

Yeah so I know I'm going to get **** for saying this but its just another option... I was in your situation about 4 months ago. I was a DCA student going into multi and I said to myself that I really dont want to be a flight instructor. I'm tired of training flights and I really dont want to teach.. I just didn't think it was for me. So I looked around. I went to Gulfstream airlines academy and it ended up being a great thing for me. No I'm not flying a jet and yeah I'm getting paid like a bag boy at the supermarket but its fun. I'm flying real routes with real people just like you will be in another year or so if you stay at DCA.. I'm not saying that DCA is a bad place at all. I think that they have a good system that works but I think its the long way around. Most people are going to tell you that GIA it a bad school and its a horrible company and what not but hey its like that anywhere. There are always going to be problems wherever you go. So many people hate mesa and freedom but atleast your flying a jet. I feel the same way about Gulfstream that it may not be the greatest but I know that I'm more happy flying the 1900 then I would be sitting in a cessna flying around Lake Apoka. Thats my take on it and thats my story...

How much did you pay for the opportunity?

I've heard that if you work for some place like Gulfstream, you might get blacklisted from the airlines. Is there any truth to this rumor? Apparantly, the airlines don't like the fact that you are PAYING to sit in a seat that is required to have a pilot as per the FARs. Then again, I guess working for a regional at $20k/yr is like paying to sit in that seat...

These responses may belong under the "Flight Training" thread, however, I would suggest that you request info from all of the flight academies and do some comparative shopping. In the end, I'm sure you will see that Airline Transport Professionals (ATP) will be the logical choice.:p

"Palmer....listen to me!!!!"

atp

No truth to that at all. First of all it's illegal to do that. I went to Jet University which some here claim is PFT. But look where I am now! Who cares what others think, they are just jealous that they are not me!

I agree with you... Some people say that GIA is PFT but it doesn't matter where you go your going to pay for some sort of training. It doesn't matter where you go as long as you get where you want to be which is to a good airline where you get paid good money.

it was $30,000 at GIA. Thats for the training ( ground school, sims, ect.)

There's huge differences between Jet U and GIA/GTA. The guys at Jet U will tell you whatever you want to hear to get you to go there. I can't caution you enough about the risks of going that route. CAT the air cargo company you will fly for is not in good shape...what happens if CAT goes away? Hardly anyone gets a job with CAT afterwards. I cannot express to you enough how big of a mistake you coudl make by going to Jet U.

i want to learn more about Gulfstream...30k, that seems like alot, what are you loans looking like? isn't that alot to pay off? What are my advantages of going to GIA?

Anyone who goes to Gulfstream WILL be blacklisted, any one who pays to sit right seat is not only doing hurting himself but he is hurting every other pilot in the industry. Please have some respect for the profession that we all love so much and don't pay an airline to sit right seat. People like is3cm are hated by so many and will never be able to jumpseat one of my flights, they are as good as scabs. What the heck is everone's problem with instructing? Did you know that in the early 90s you HAD to instruct, many guys had over 2,000 hrs of dual given and still couldn't get a regional job. Get your CFIs and instruct. Everyone has to pay their dues and you are no different...there are no short cuts in this industry. You will ruin your career very quickly by attending a PFT or PFJ program, you don't need to make anymore mistakes, you have made enough already by going to DCA. Please research and talk to real life airline pilots about these PFT programs like GIA....you will find out very quickly how the majority of pilots feal about it......

PFT only existed one time in this industry, and it was back in the early to mid '90's. That was when dorks would fork out $10K of daddy's money to buy themselves a job at a commuter airline. They bypassed a lot of people by paying the airline for their training. Also, it was their checkbooks and not their skill that got them employment. Most of them are now either furloughed and working at Popeye's Chicken, or still stuck at the commuter level complaining to whoever will listen.

Does your butt hurt?
 

DCA will destroy your will to live. Get out while you can. I am still bitter about how they treated us as both students and instructors.

Browntail, can you give me some more info about jetunivesity? What are the requirements to get that jet officer training course. It says that you need your commercial multi and instrument. That's aleardy 30K there, they want me to pay another 33K for a total of 60K so I can get a job flying the 727? How much did it cost you and what did you end up paying at the end for the program after the 500 hours flying the 727? What was the QOL like.

Kinda scary thinking a 500 hour pilot is flying a CRJ around, let alone a 727!!!! :eek:
That's a whole heck of a lot more aluminum to putz around in than a 172.

Connectionpilot.. 30K is a lot and I spent 80K at DCA because I lived in a nice apartment in Lake Mary instead of living at the landing, takeing about 30K out of my loan on living expenses. But I still have 6 months after GIA to start paying. And I'm getting $8 dollars per flight hour for the first 250 so it helps a little. Your advantage to going to GIA is that you will get the experence of flying in a 121 operation and you get the experence of flying with all the majors at all the big airports not to mention the international experence.. Not that the Bahamas is that much of an international destination. Your flying bigger and faster aircraft and most of all your dealing with people. But to make that step you have to make sure that its what you want to do. Its too much money to change you mind halfway through. The training is fast and somewhat difficult. I know when I was sitting where you are right now all I wanted to do were Cross countrys and shoot approaches. I was tired of stalls and slow flight and all of that. And I feel that GIA allowed me to get out of the training life and start actually doing what I was being trained to do. Your not going to be put on a blacklist and not be hated for it if you go there. Its just an airline that has a program that gets you what you need to go to a regional. If this was a PFT/PFJ program then everyone from my class would be flying right now but two out of the six of us are not. One cant pass the sim and the other couldn't pass his checkride and neither of them has even been in the actual airplane. So where does the PFT/PFJ come in?? Cause as far as I can see is that I spent 30K to get trained to fly a 1900 instead of spend 30K on CFI, CFII, and MEI. I have buddies finishing their 250 and going to Eagle and Expressjet just like you would be if you were a CFI with 1000 hrs and 100 multi. Just do what you feel is right. There is nothing wrong with being a CFI or going to Jet U or GIA or getting a job towing a banner at the beach. However you get your hours is how you get your hours. And call me a scab if you want but I'm enjoying what I'm doing and my quality of life is outstanding.

You make $8.00 per hour and your quality of life is OUTSTANDING? I think that is the quote of the year.:eek:

Well no I didn't mean the $8 because that isn't great. But its only for three months. But my quality of life is good because I'm living back at home where I want to be and I'm getting really good hours. Where I'm living is the most important thing to me.

I understand being at home is a big plus. I just hope that GIA dosen't hurt your career progression. I'm in no way throwing stones, I just hear a lot of negative things when the "PFT" subject comes up. I personally don't agree with "PFT", but to each is his own.

I understand what your saying.. And I thank you for not throwing stones at me. I have heard a lot of negative things but I've also heard positive things and there are guys from GIA that are moving up in the industry. But I guess I wont know for sure for myself until I get to that point.

Where are you now? What did Jet U do for you?

GIA, RAA, PFT, its not the airline that will black ball you its the pilots. We all get a little bitter when daddy picks up the bill or some salesman talks one of our future brothers into borrowing more money only to see them get stuck with a $600 payment and a $1200 income and having to get out of the business just to repay the loans. Its disheartening.

I was in an X-jet interview with a guy who announced he was a gulf streamer, aside from not having a clue he did not get the job. He was a moron but I heard one of the other guys in the interview had a connection with one of the interviewers. When it was his turn to interview he told his connection about this guy being a gulf streamer and the fact that he seemed idiot. Needless to say he got the walk.

I meet guys all the time with RAA type ratings that can't figure out which way is up and can not even come close to having someone talk to them about a job at their airline.

Get your Cfi make $15-$25 bucks an hour for a year, learn more than you ever will in a class room and become a professional pilot! That’s my advise.

Flame on~!

I'm at UPS.

Tuition for embry riddle is 25k per year plus room and board which is an additional 7k. That's 32k per year times 4 and add in 50k for flight training so you're looking at least 170k for a four year degree plus flight training costs. That's not even including expenses. Your 80k with embry riddle and flight training was with the extended campus .