Originally Posted by bryris (Post 634431)

To the OP: The carrier does not owe a job. If you hired a high school kid to mow your lawn every week and then a huge drought came along and your grass stopped growing, would you continue to pay the kid if there was no grass to mow? You'd likely tell them there is no work and potentially rehire him only when the grass grows again. The fact that the kid sees you drive up in your Mercedes and curses the fact that you aren't paying him in reality makes no difference to you because you owe him nothing beyond consideration for mowing your lawn. The fact that the airline has money has no bearing on the fact that they should keep you aboard so you don't go without money. Their loyalty is not to you, it is to the owners. You are instantly replaceable.

As pilots, we feel some sort of entitlement because we can fly an airplane and went to school. Pilots are just background noise - this is not what I believe, this is what management believes and it shows everyday.

The whole pilot profession right now just seems like trying to walk with your shoe laces tied together and not realizing what the problem is. The problem follows you around. You can look around at the world all day and curse about the reasons you can't walk, but the reality is you must reach down and solve the problem yourself. As long as the masses have the rationale of "At least you have a job and a check", the shoe laces will stay tied. All shorts of shenanigans can and will occur in the industry, all led by and hence to the benefit of the owners (NOT YOU), and so long as pilots disparately cling to the prospect of a paycheck out of fear to make a bold move and reserve their feelings of hostility to this board, conversations at cruise, etc, it will get worse and worse and worse.

This board has nothing to do with flying. The thing we all love is just background noise to this fighting, bickering, ICALL thread closings, union debates, rumor mills, etc. What is it that keeps people coming after this profession? There are other ways to fly and MANY other ways to make money.

If even a respectable fraction of the folks on here who complain left and rightly put their actions where their mouths are and GET OUT, the problems would in many ways solve themselves naturally for those who stay behind.

Too many bodies in the kitchen all fighting over a scrap. "Its my scrap". "No, its my scrap". "My mom made it, not yours. Doesn't that entitle me to the scrap over you?" "But my mom disowned me and I am older than you, so shouldn't I be entitled to that scrap your mom made?" "I heard Bobby's mom is going to take care of all of us now!" "But Bobby's mom has already disowned her own kids, how is she going to take care of us?" "I dunno, I just need a scrap!!!"

Originally Posted by bryris (Post 634431)

To the OP: The carrier does not owe a job. If you hired a high school kid to mow your lawn every week and then a huge drought came along and your grass stopped growing, would you continue to pay the kid if there was no grass to mow? You'd likely tell them there is no work and potentially rehire him only when the grass grows again. The fact that the kid sees you drive up in your Mercedes and curses the fact that you aren't paying him in reality makes no difference to you because you owe him nothing beyond consideration for mowing your lawn. The fact that the airline has money has no bearing on the fact that they should keep you aboard so you don't go without money. Their loyalty is not to you, it is to the owners. You are instantly replaceable.

As pilots, we feel some sort of entitlement because we can fly an airplane and went to school. Pilots are just background noise - this is not what I believe, this is what management believes and it shows everyday.

The whole pilot profession right now just seems like trying to walk with your shoe laces tied together and not realizing what the problem is. The problem follows you around. You can look around at the world all day and curse about the reasons you can't walk, but the reality is you must reach down and solve the problem yourself. As long as the masses have the rationale of "At least you have a job and a check", the shoe laces will stay tied. All shorts of shenanigans can and will occur in the industry, all led by and hence to the benefit of the owners (NOT YOU), and so long as pilots disparately cling to the prospect of a paycheck out of fear to make a bold move and reserve their feelings of hostility to this board, conversations at cruise, etc, it will get worse and worse and worse.

This board has nothing to do with flying. The thing we all love is just background noise to this fighting, bickering, ICALL thread closings, union debates, rumor mills, etc. What is it that keeps people coming after this profession? There are other ways to fly and MANY other ways to make money.

If even a respectable fraction of the folks on here who complain left and rightly put their actions where their mouths are and GET OUT, the problems would in many ways solve themselves naturally for those who stay behind.

Too many bodies in the kitchen all fighting over a scrap. "Its my scrap". "No, its my scrap". "My mom made it, not yours. Doesn't that entitle me to the scrap over you?" "But my mom disowned me and I am older than you, so shouldn't I be entitled to that scrap your mom made?" "I heard Bobby's mom is going to take care of all of us now!" "But Bobby's mom has already disowned her own kids, how is she going to take care of us?" "I dunno, I just need a scrap!!!"

Originally Posted by bryris (Post 634431)

Too many bodies in the kitchen all fighting over a scrap. "Its my scrap". "No, its my scrap". "My mom made it, not yours. Doesn't that entitle me to the scrap over you?" "But my mom disowned me and I am older than you, so shouldn't I be entitled to that scrap your mom made?" "I heard Bobby's mom is going to take care of all of us now!" "But Bobby's mom has already disowned her own kids, how is she going to take care of us?" "I dunno, I just need a scrap!!!"

Originally Posted by utedrummer (Post 635032)

I think its interesting how many people here are still living under the belief (albeit illusion) that life is fair.

Originally Posted by bryris (Post 634431)

To the OP: The carrier does not owe a job. If you hired a high school kid to mow your lawn every week and then a huge drought came along and your grass stopped growing, would you continue to pay the kid if there was no grass to mow? You'd likely tell them there is no work and potentially rehire him only when the grass grows again. The fact that the kid sees you drive up in your Mercedes and curses the fact that you aren't paying him in reality makes no difference to you because you owe him nothing beyond consideration for mowing your lawn. The fact that the airline has money has no bearing on the fact that they should keep you aboard so you don't go without money. Their loyalty is not to you, it is to the owners. You are instantly replaceable.

As pilots, we feel some sort of entitlement because we can fly an airplane and went to school. Pilots are just background noise - this is not what I believe, this is what management believes and it shows everyday.

The whole pilot profession right now just seems like trying to walk with your shoe laces tied together and not realizing what the problem is. The problem follows you around. You can look around at the world all day and curse about the reasons you can't walk, but the reality is you must reach down and solve the problem yourself. As long as the masses have the rationale of "At least you have a job and a check", the shoe laces will stay tied. All shorts of shenanigans can and will occur in the industry, all led by and hence to the benefit of the owners (NOT YOU), and so long as pilots disparately cling to the prospect of a paycheck out of fear to make a bold move and reserve their feelings of hostility to this board, conversations at cruise, etc, it will get worse and worse and worse.

This board has nothing to do with flying. The thing we all love is just background noise to this fighting, bickering, ICALL thread closings, union debates, rumor mills, etc. What is it that keeps people coming after this profession? There are other ways to fly and MANY other ways to make money.

If even a respectable fraction of the folks on here who complain left and rightly put their actions where their mouths are and GET OUT, the problems would in many ways solve themselves naturally for those who stay behind.

Too many bodies in the kitchen all fighting over a scrap. "Its my scrap". "No, its my scrap". "My mom made it, not yours. Doesn't that entitle me to the scrap over you?" "But my mom disowned me and I am older than you, so shouldn't I be entitled to that scrap your mom made?" "I heard Bobby's mom is going to take care of all of us now!" "But Bobby's mom has already disowned her own kids, how is she going to take care of us?" "I dunno, I just need a scrap!!!"

Originally Posted by Whacker77 (Post 634949)

I never said the airline owed furloughed pilots a job. I said, where I on furlough, I would be unhappy the company could make these aquisitions, but not be able to keep me employed. That's very different from saying the airline owes the pilots a job at the cost of aquisitions that could be beneficial for the bottom line.