Need some help in a debate....
 

My wife has this crazy idea that unions are bad, and they are bad for business. I have tried every arguement that I can think of that without the union, life would be much worse. She even had the nerve to ask "If your company(9e) goes on strike, can't you keep working?" So I am asking anyone out there that might be able to provide some good arguements that I may not have thought of in order to change her mind. Please don't bash my wife as I love her dearly, she just has some crazy notions that need to be turned around. Thanks in advance.

Airline CEO's and management are like little kids... You write rules down on paper, they know the rules and they know whats wrong and whats right, but yet they still try to see how far they can bend them. Without a union (parents) this would just be a free rain for the little kids.

In theory your wife is correct. If a company has good/great management/owners then there is no need for a union and all a union will do is add cost and slow down the company.

In reality you are right, because airlines have some of the worst management teams in any industry.

Have her read "Flying the Line." Ask her how many coal miners, steelworkers, pilots etc would be dead today if it were not for the unions pushing for safety regulations. And general QOL issues. Not every union is formed so a greeter at Wallymart can earn an extra $2/hour.
Better yet have her apply for a FA position at 9e when they start hiring and see how fast her attitude changes :D

Management is the dog; we are the fire hydrant.

Management knows they can lift their leg at will, because we actually want to do this job.

We have to negotiate contracts, to force them to stop.

Have her work for an airline for about a year. Argument won.

In a free market economy labor unions hinder the growth and strength of the economy. Basic economics models show this. I have had the same debate your wife and yourself are having with myself many times. In many of our large manufacturing industries labor unions have had an enormous detremental effect on our economy and have led to higher than necessary costs being passed on to the consumer. When a labor union negotiates 50 to 80 thousand dollar wages for unskilled and only basically educated workers it is bad for all of us, such as in the auto and steel industries just to name a few. However; when it comes to skilled, highly trained professional labor groups I have nearly convinced myself that labor unions are necessary. In the airline industry where safety and standardization are paramount it becomes nearly impossible for a pilot to compete for promotions and differentiate themselfs from other pilots. So we have to rely on our union to negotiate our labor to management. Without our unions we would be working to the maximums allowed in the regs and doing it for whatever the lowest bidder was willing to do it for. Those are the arguments I have come up with for union necessity for airline pilots.

You are all missing the point.

Your wife is ALWAYS right. End of story.

Therein lies the key to a blissful marriage.

Two things:

1. As a whole, pilots are not viewed as individuals who provide value, on an individual basis. They are seen as a group. More specifically, a labor group. Management views labor costs as something that hinders their ability to turn a profit. In this industry, there are very few forward-thinking upper-level managers who go by the philosophy of: "if you treat your employees well, they will put forth more effort, have better work habits, have less attrition, less training costs, etc., and in turn, will actually subsidize their higher pay and quality of life."

2. Unlike many professional and management positions, the experience level of pilots really has no value. For example, if a person goes to interview for an upper-level HR position at a company, and they bring up that they have a doctorate degree, 20 years of experience, have managed large HR teams, are hailed as speakers at industry conferences, etc., they will have more negotiating power for their wage and quality of life than someone fresh out of college with a BS degree in HR management. This is because there are many levels of HR management positions. The higher the level, the fewer qualified candidates, and the more negotiating power the experienced individual has. With pilots, we are all on the same level, as far as management is concerned. Because pilots all do the same job, whether they have 25,000 hours, or 250 hours, their experience is not valued. If a 25,000 hour pilot goes into an interview, and tells a lot of great stories about heroic adventures of handling complex emergency situations, such as flying the airplane with an engine failure on one side, and an engine fire on the opposite side, and tries to use these experiences to negotiate a higher salary, the interviewer will basically say, "yeah, that was a cool story, but why would I offer you the salary you want if there is a 250 hour pilot standing right outside the door, willing to do it for 1/2 the price?"

Overall, unions are a necessary evil. If management actually cared about having the "best and brightest", unions may be less of a necessity. Because we are viewed as a group, with our wages only hindering their profit ability, unions provide us a way to stand together, as a group, to negotiate fair and equitable wages. It helps curb what supply and demand would immediately destroy. It is a beautiful theory, however, reality can sometimes make one question the value unionism. In my opinion, it has proven itself to be the best way, no matter how flawed, over time. Remember, almost all of the original Legacy contracts were negotiated through unionism. The break down of Legacy pay and quality of life has mostly been through the break down of union contracts and unionism. Granted, a lot of the break down was the direct result of the RLA, and bankruptcies; but, these two things, ultimately, have led to the weakening of unionism and union contracts. This, undoubtedly, has caused many to question the validity of unionism in this industry.

I don't see why this argument is even happening. Tell you wife that she is NOT ALLOWED an opinion, and to get back in the kitchen and make you some pie!!










j/k ;);), MY wife was actually the one who suggested this. I happen to agree with the guy who said your wife is ALWAYS right.