Any Word on NMB decision for 9E?
07-02-2009, 11:24 AM
#11
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Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 426
Originally Posted by PinnacleFO
man, how are you going to feel in 6 months when we still dont have a decision?
By the way, when a TA does come out please read and understand it front to back cover before you make an informed vote. Too many of you folks use bits of information, and often misinformation, from the company message board or other gossiping pilots to base your judgements and decisions.
This is a big deal folks. Whatever we vote YES on is us, the lowest paid CRJ carrier nationwide with arguably the worst work rules, saying "We think this is fair and acceptable." What we do will effect our entire profession's future. We do not have to continue to play a huge part in the demise of our own industry if we just stand together on this.
Last edited by Noseeums; 07-02-2009 at 11:41 AM.
07-03-2009, 01:03 PM
#12
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Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: EMB 145 CPT
Posts: 2,934
"Pinnacle pilots and management met in Washington, DC, last week with the National Mediation Board in an effort to reach an agreement on a new contract. After 53 months of negotiations, both sides have agreed to virtually everything of substance but remain at odds over language to cover flying commonly typed aircraft with multiple pay scales. The NMB will further discuss the status of the PCL negotiations and render a decision on what to do next."
07-03-2009, 01:50 PM
#13
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Joined APC: Sep 2006
Posts: 787
Originally Posted by Nevets
"Pinnacle pilots and management met in Washington, DC, last week with the National Mediation Board in an effort to reach an agreement on a new contract. After 53 months of negotiations, both sides have agreed to virtually everything of substance but remain at odds over language to cover flying commonly typed aircraft with multiple pay scales. The NMB will further discuss the status of the PCL negotiations and render a decision on what to do next."
07-04-2009, 12:44 AM
#15
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Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: MD80
Posts: 1,111
If Pinnacle strikes, does that mean all of the DCI pilots would have to stop flying in order not to end up in the black list of scabs? How would that work?
Last edited by AirWillie; 07-04-2009 at 12:56 AM. Reason: guaranteed fresh
07-04-2009, 09:54 AM
#16
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Position: Bus driver
Posts: 2,524
Originally Posted by AirWillie
If Pinnacle strikes, does that mean all of the DCI pilots would have to stop flying in order not to end up in the black list of scabs? How would that work?
A scab is someone who crosses a picket line to fly. One example would be 9E striking and myself (a Pinnacle pilot) calling scheduling and saying "I will fly". Of course you would have to have a gun to my wife's head for me to do this- but you get the point.
I have a current scab list and there are quite a few pilots flying for regionals that are on it... Of course a good percentage on the guys on the list are already dead.
07-04-2009, 09:57 AM
#17
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Joined APC: Sep 2006
Posts: 787
Originally Posted by AirWillie
If Pinnacle strikes, does that mean all of the DCI pilots would have to stop flying in order not to end up in the black list of scabs? How would that work?
07-04-2009, 11:46 AM
#18
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Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: DC-9 Neo, Right
Posts: 158
Originally Posted by higney85
No, the other DCI carriers all continue flying. Delta has learned from Comair's 2001 strike and has made most routes flown in the network flown by more than one carrier. Other carriers CAN refuse "Struck work" which would be routes exclusively done by 9E. When I get a chance I will try to find the exact verbage. There has been NO update from the NMB as of July 4.
A scab is someone who crosses a picket line to fly. One example would be 9E striking and myself (a Pinnacle pilot) calling scheduling and saying "I will fly". Of course you would have to have a gun to my wife's head for me to do this- but you get the point.
I have a current scab list and there are quite a few pilots flying for regionals that are on it... Of course a good percentage on the guys on the list are already dead.
A scab is someone who crosses a picket line to fly. One example would be 9E striking and myself (a Pinnacle pilot) calling scheduling and saying "I will fly". Of course you would have to have a gun to my wife's head for me to do this- but you get the point.
I have a current scab list and there are quite a few pilots flying for regionals that are on it... Of course a good percentage on the guys on the list are already dead.
What didja do, shoot them??
...I probably would have (j/k). I am another Pinnacle driver, and I am more than willing to STRIKE!!! I am so sick and tired of of hearing, "oh my, we are so close SOMETHING is gonna happen next time we meet with the company." Then in cousin Clive's last memo he states that we have a very good offer on the table for our pilots, but they don't wanna agree to it...(the dual-qual nonsense). Then at the end he says, "It is time we get this done.
" Huh? You're blankety blankin right it is time we have this done, but you and the rest of the gang keep finding new ways to hold us up. You DON'T want it done Clive!!!!!
Anyway...rant over.
07-04-2009, 12:34 PM
#19
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Position: Bus driver
Posts: 2,524
From the master scab list:
A SCAB is A Person Who is Doing What You’d be Doing if You Weren’t on Strike.
A SCAB takes your job, a Job he could not get under normal circumstances. He can only advance himself by taking advantage of labor disputes and
walking over the backs of workers trying to maintain decent wages and working conditions. He helps management to destroy his and your profession,
often ending up under conditions he/she wouldn't even have scabbed for. No matter. A SCAB doesn't think long term, nor does he think of anything other
then himself. His smile shows fangs that drip with your blood, for he willingly destroys families, lives, careers, opportunities and professions at the drop of
a hat. He takes from a striker what he knows he could never earn by his own merit: a decent Job. He steals that which others earned at the bargaining
table through blood, sweat and tears, and throws it away in an instant - ruining lives, jobs and careers.
ONCE A SCAB, ALWAYS A SCAB - NEVER FORGET!
Below are brief notes about legal strikes by organized pilots.
1. Century Airlines 1932: Pilots struck to resist wage reduction by E.L Cord, the patron saint of Frank Lorenzo.
2. TWA 1946: Pilots struck over pay on faster 4 engine aircraft, limited by the provisions of Decision 83.
3. National Airlines 1948: Strike over aircraft safety and repeated violations of the labor contract.
4. Western Airlines 1958: Qualifications of the Flight Engineer.
5. Southern Airways 1960: Strike over wage rates at regional carrier vs. larger airline.
6. Rio Airways 1976: Pilots represented by the Union of Professional Airmen, an ALPA affiliate, struck over issues of seniority, pay, safety and system
board neutrality after failing to negotiate first contract.
7. Wien Air Alaska 1977: Crew complement on B-737.
8. Continental Airlines 1983: Struck to resist Frank Lorenzo’s use of Bankruptcy Law to abrogate labor contracts.
9. Pan American 1985: Pilots MEC elected to honor TWU picket line. These people did not honor that strike.
10. United Airlines 1985: Forced by mgmt to strike over B-Scale pay rates and the company attempt to break UAL ALPA.
11. Eastern Airlines 1989: Pilots honored IAM picket lines against Frank Lorenzo’ s asset-stripping of EAL to favor Continental.
12. AFAP 1989: Australian Federation of Air Pilots at 4 domestic airlines quit to protect retirement after disputing government wage control program.
Some Americans, among others, happily filled in.
13 Comair 2001: Pilots struck over poor pay and work rules. They fought to end the second class treatment of all Small Jet pilots.
IMPORTANT NOTES: The CAL and EAL MECs determined that simply agreeing to work (or going to training) at these companies during the strike, not
just flying a revenue trip, was enough to be a scab. They alone can determin the definition of “struck work” and we cannot second guess or change that
determination now. The struck work definition was made BEFORE the strike, and anyone who violated it has only themselves to blame. "Ident" column
gives employee number, LAST FOUR of their SSN, date of birth (dob), ATP number, date of hire (doh), or other means of identification. "Seniority Suit"
means those Scabs at UAL who sued the union and the company to prevent the 570 from regaining their proper seniority position. "Fleet Qualified" (FQ,
Flt Qual, etc.) are those hired off the street under a special pay plan and with promises of super-seniority to replace union pilots at United. ALPA – Some
scabs are ALPA members because the ’85 Back-to Work agreement forced the union not to “discriminate” against the back-stabbers who tried to steal
their jobs and seniority. Some Scabs never resigned from the union and continue to pay dues. Some scabs did some penance and were forgiven by ALPA
(but NOT forgotten) and re-admitted. Some simply fell through the cracks and got into the union after a merger, name change, etc (PAA). A date for an
EAL Scab is his date of hire, no date means he’s old Eastern. "???" by an EAL Scab means that the name appeared on several Scab lists during the
strike but was absent from the final list. Other remarks show past Employers or other claims to infamy. MOST Scabs at CAL have a LETTER at the END
of their employee number (but not all have this). Most employee numbers are listed (ie 0220B or 51225). The Continental “Preferential Hire” List and UAL
“You Be The Judge” lists are on the last page.
**email removed for public board***
HERE IS A SUMMARY OF THE NUMBER OF SCABS FROM EACH AIRLINE:
Air North Summary AirNorth Both Scabs Listed
Australian Summary AFAP 89 85 America West & Braniff Scabs
Century Summary Century 1 Scab Identified Thus Far
Continental Summary CAL 83 1,996 Scabs listed
Eastern Summary EAL 89 2,253 Scabs Listed
National Summary NAL 48 101 Scabs listed out of 167 total
Northwest Summary NWA 78 34 Scabs listed
Pan American Summary PAA 85 139 Scabs listed
Prinair Summary Prinair 2 Scabs listed
Rio Airways Summary RIO 76 43 Scabs listed
Southern Summary SOU 60 205 Scabs listed
TWA Summary TWA 46 2 Scabs listed
United Summary UAL 85 837 Scabs listed
Western Summary WAL 58 3 Scabs listed
Wien Air Alaska Summmary WAA 77 82 Scabs listed
Comair Summary CMR 01 3 Scabs listed
TOTAL LISTED SCABS 5,799 (Century & NAL incomplete)
Going back to 1932 you will have had a good number of natural deaths.....
A SCAB is A Person Who is Doing What You’d be Doing if You Weren’t on Strike.
A SCAB takes your job, a Job he could not get under normal circumstances. He can only advance himself by taking advantage of labor disputes and
walking over the backs of workers trying to maintain decent wages and working conditions. He helps management to destroy his and your profession,
often ending up under conditions he/she wouldn't even have scabbed for. No matter. A SCAB doesn't think long term, nor does he think of anything other
then himself. His smile shows fangs that drip with your blood, for he willingly destroys families, lives, careers, opportunities and professions at the drop of
a hat. He takes from a striker what he knows he could never earn by his own merit: a decent Job. He steals that which others earned at the bargaining
table through blood, sweat and tears, and throws it away in an instant - ruining lives, jobs and careers.
ONCE A SCAB, ALWAYS A SCAB - NEVER FORGET!
Below are brief notes about legal strikes by organized pilots.
1. Century Airlines 1932: Pilots struck to resist wage reduction by E.L Cord, the patron saint of Frank Lorenzo.
2. TWA 1946: Pilots struck over pay on faster 4 engine aircraft, limited by the provisions of Decision 83.
3. National Airlines 1948: Strike over aircraft safety and repeated violations of the labor contract.
4. Western Airlines 1958: Qualifications of the Flight Engineer.
5. Southern Airways 1960: Strike over wage rates at regional carrier vs. larger airline.
6. Rio Airways 1976: Pilots represented by the Union of Professional Airmen, an ALPA affiliate, struck over issues of seniority, pay, safety and system
board neutrality after failing to negotiate first contract.
7. Wien Air Alaska 1977: Crew complement on B-737.
8. Continental Airlines 1983: Struck to resist Frank Lorenzo’s use of Bankruptcy Law to abrogate labor contracts.
9. Pan American 1985: Pilots MEC elected to honor TWU picket line. These people did not honor that strike.
10. United Airlines 1985: Forced by mgmt to strike over B-Scale pay rates and the company attempt to break UAL ALPA.
11. Eastern Airlines 1989: Pilots honored IAM picket lines against Frank Lorenzo’ s asset-stripping of EAL to favor Continental.
12. AFAP 1989: Australian Federation of Air Pilots at 4 domestic airlines quit to protect retirement after disputing government wage control program.
Some Americans, among others, happily filled in.
13 Comair 2001: Pilots struck over poor pay and work rules. They fought to end the second class treatment of all Small Jet pilots.
IMPORTANT NOTES: The CAL and EAL MECs determined that simply agreeing to work (or going to training) at these companies during the strike, not
just flying a revenue trip, was enough to be a scab. They alone can determin the definition of “struck work” and we cannot second guess or change that
determination now. The struck work definition was made BEFORE the strike, and anyone who violated it has only themselves to blame. "Ident" column
gives employee number, LAST FOUR of their SSN, date of birth (dob), ATP number, date of hire (doh), or other means of identification. "Seniority Suit"
means those Scabs at UAL who sued the union and the company to prevent the 570 from regaining their proper seniority position. "Fleet Qualified" (FQ,
Flt Qual, etc.) are those hired off the street under a special pay plan and with promises of super-seniority to replace union pilots at United. ALPA – Some
scabs are ALPA members because the ’85 Back-to Work agreement forced the union not to “discriminate” against the back-stabbers who tried to steal
their jobs and seniority. Some Scabs never resigned from the union and continue to pay dues. Some scabs did some penance and were forgiven by ALPA
(but NOT forgotten) and re-admitted. Some simply fell through the cracks and got into the union after a merger, name change, etc (PAA). A date for an
EAL Scab is his date of hire, no date means he’s old Eastern. "???" by an EAL Scab means that the name appeared on several Scab lists during the
strike but was absent from the final list. Other remarks show past Employers or other claims to infamy. MOST Scabs at CAL have a LETTER at the END
of their employee number (but not all have this). Most employee numbers are listed (ie 0220B or 51225). The Continental “Preferential Hire” List and UAL
“You Be The Judge” lists are on the last page.
**email removed for public board***
HERE IS A SUMMARY OF THE NUMBER OF SCABS FROM EACH AIRLINE:
Air North Summary AirNorth Both Scabs Listed
Australian Summary AFAP 89 85 America West & Braniff Scabs
Century Summary Century 1 Scab Identified Thus Far
Continental Summary CAL 83 1,996 Scabs listed
Eastern Summary EAL 89 2,253 Scabs Listed
National Summary NAL 48 101 Scabs listed out of 167 total
Northwest Summary NWA 78 34 Scabs listed
Pan American Summary PAA 85 139 Scabs listed
Prinair Summary Prinair 2 Scabs listed
Rio Airways Summary RIO 76 43 Scabs listed
Southern Summary SOU 60 205 Scabs listed
TWA Summary TWA 46 2 Scabs listed
United Summary UAL 85 837 Scabs listed
Western Summary WAL 58 3 Scabs listed
Wien Air Alaska Summmary WAA 77 82 Scabs listed
Comair Summary CMR 01 3 Scabs listed
TOTAL LISTED SCABS 5,799 (Century & NAL incomplete)
Going back to 1932 you will have had a good number of natural deaths.....
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