how long is the line....
07-05-2009, 09:02 PM
#61
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
What a bunch of crybabies on here. The industry is going through a downturn now- some people are gonna get nailed and it's not fun. It doesn't last!
Someone mentioned earlier about the people that got into a regional at the beginning of the wave after 9/11 and hopped quickly to a major but are "now furloughed."
I'm one of those, however a long ways away from being furloughed and should be able to not check off the 'F' box. You cannot beat getting on at the beginning of the wave.
I can't believe I just read someone suggest for the original poster to stay put as a flight instructor. What horrible advice...
Someone mentioned earlier about the people that got into a regional at the beginning of the wave after 9/11 and hopped quickly to a major but are "now furloughed."
I'm one of those, however a long ways away from being furloughed and should be able to not check off the 'F' box. You cannot beat getting on at the beginning of the wave.
I can't believe I just read someone suggest for the original poster to stay put as a flight instructor. What horrible advice...
07-06-2009, 05:43 AM
#62
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: standing-by
Posts: 287
I think a previous poster mentioned the number of commercial certificates issued last year. Here's some stats from AOPA... AOPA Online: General Aviation Trends
Also, another poster said they had $250,000 in college loans! I know it's getting more expensive, but those students or soon to be students - try a year or two of community college, online classes, certificates/ratings at a close FBO, work while going to school, etc. Then if you need to, spend a couple of years at Embry, UND, whereever. The way the industry is now, it'll take forever to pay that off (all subject to change in 5 years of course).
Also, another poster said they had $250,000 in college loans! I know it's getting more expensive, but those students or soon to be students - try a year or two of community college, online classes, certificates/ratings at a close FBO, work while going to school, etc. Then if you need to, spend a couple of years at Embry, UND, whereever. The way the industry is now, it'll take forever to pay that off (all subject to change in 5 years of course).
07-06-2009, 07:13 AM
#63
Self Employed.
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Things change
People have mentioned that aviation cycles and it is true. However we are seeing some big changes going on here. Unlike past slowdowns this recession is huge and oil is threatening to go up again. I don't think we have seen the worst of it yet. The industry needs to constrict a bit more. Many airlines have not yet even recovered from 9-11. Some mighty old trees of the airline industry have yet to fall.
I just don't think we can count on another typical return to the good times. Even then they were not all that good.
Skyhigh
I just don't think we can count on another typical return to the good times. Even then they were not all that good.
Skyhigh
07-06-2009, 07:48 AM
#64
Self Employed.
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Hobby Job
I have enjoyed reading this thread and I have noticed a trend. Lately there has been an increasing amount of statements like:
"You have got to love the flying because there is no money in aviation".
"Money is not an issue for me".
In a recent post someone mentioned being "250K in educational debt". I have always used 150K as an average price for a four year college education and flight training.
If it is true that as a pilot group we have reached a place where people can expect to shell out a fortune in education and training to then be followed by most of a decade of low wage experience building jobs to finally make a bit more than a mailman then lets call it what it is. A hobby job. A personal vision quest. Aviation martyrdom.
Most rational people would not consider blowing a fortune on the returns being offered as a pilot. I do not wish to criticize others for following their passion. I merely think it is important to correctly identify that for most aviation is not a sound investment into your future but a personal life choice that offers few returns other than sunsets and flight obsessed satisfaction.
So if you are miserable in your current position and think that it will get better as a pilot then perhaps you had better think twice. Most here will only get to enjoy a few sunsets for their troubles.
Skyhigh
"You have got to love the flying because there is no money in aviation".
"Money is not an issue for me".
In a recent post someone mentioned being "250K in educational debt". I have always used 150K as an average price for a four year college education and flight training.
If it is true that as a pilot group we have reached a place where people can expect to shell out a fortune in education and training to then be followed by most of a decade of low wage experience building jobs to finally make a bit more than a mailman then lets call it what it is. A hobby job. A personal vision quest. Aviation martyrdom.
Most rational people would not consider blowing a fortune on the returns being offered as a pilot. I do not wish to criticize others for following their passion. I merely think it is important to correctly identify that for most aviation is not a sound investment into your future but a personal life choice that offers few returns other than sunsets and flight obsessed satisfaction.
So if you are miserable in your current position and think that it will get better as a pilot then perhaps you had better think twice. Most here will only get to enjoy a few sunsets for their troubles.
Skyhigh
07-06-2009, 11:36 AM
#65
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: MD80
Posts: 1,111
Originally Posted by SkyHigh
I have enjoyed reading this thread and I have noticed a trend. Lately there has been an increasing amount of statements like:
"You have got to love the flying because there is no money in aviation".
"Money is not an issue for me".
In a recent post someone mentioned being "250K in educational debt". I have always used 150K as an average price for a four year college education and flight training.
If it is true that as a pilot group we have reached a place where people can expect to shell out a fortune in education and training to then be followed by most of a decade of low wage experience building jobs to finally make a bit more than a mailman then lets call it what it is. A hobby job. A personal vision quest. Aviation martyrdom.
Most rational people would not consider blowing a fortune on the returns being offered as a pilot. I do not wish to criticize others for following their passion. I merely think it is important to correctly identify that for most aviation is not a sound investment into your future but a personal life choice that offers few returns other than sunsets and flight obsessed satisfaction.
So if you are miserable in your current position and think that it will get better as a pilot then perhaps you had better think twice. Most here will only get to enjoy a few sunsets for their troubles.
Skyhigh
"You have got to love the flying because there is no money in aviation".
"Money is not an issue for me".
In a recent post someone mentioned being "250K in educational debt". I have always used 150K as an average price for a four year college education and flight training.
If it is true that as a pilot group we have reached a place where people can expect to shell out a fortune in education and training to then be followed by most of a decade of low wage experience building jobs to finally make a bit more than a mailman then lets call it what it is. A hobby job. A personal vision quest. Aviation martyrdom.
Most rational people would not consider blowing a fortune on the returns being offered as a pilot. I do not wish to criticize others for following their passion. I merely think it is important to correctly identify that for most aviation is not a sound investment into your future but a personal life choice that offers few returns other than sunsets and flight obsessed satisfaction.
So if you are miserable in your current position and think that it will get better as a pilot then perhaps you had better think twice. Most here will only get to enjoy a few sunsets for their troubles.
Skyhigh
07-06-2009, 11:49 AM
#66
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: C47 PIC/747-400 SIC
Posts: 2,100
look its up to the individual, if you have the fire for it pursue your dream,no one ever said this was going to be easy except the pilot mills.there are easier careers to pursue,there are certainly more lucrative ways to earn your tay,but if in your heart of hearts there is no other path for you,then pursue it,ignore the naysayers, especially those who quit and didn't stay the course,you may end up left seat in a 777,or a Dehaviland Beaver, but that is up to you.Good luck,Godspeed !
07-06-2009, 12:00 PM
#67
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2008
Position: none ya...
Posts: 1,154
Originally Posted by 727C47
look its up to the individual, if you have the fire for it pursue your dream,no one ever said this was going to be easy except the pilot mills.there are easier careers to pursue,there are certainly more lucrative ways to earn your stay, but if in your heart of hearts there is no other path for you, then pursue it, ignore the naysayers, especially those who quit and didn't stay the course,you may end up left seat in a 777,or a Dehaviland Beaver, but that is up to you. Good luck,Godspeed !
07-06-2009, 01:06 PM
#69
Self Employed.
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Addition
I would like to add that I think it is important that people who are considering this profession be provided with a full and honest accounting of what a life in aviation entails. It is natural for those in aviation to project an optimum bias.
Having guy like me around to flesh out the negatives I believe is a good thing. If someone can endure the full brunt of my presentation of the downside and still is game to press on then perhaps they belong.
I for one would have run had I known all that I was up against. My intent with this career was to make a good living and to build a good life. I made a huge investment in education training and almost two decades of my life only to learn that it was not going come even close to meeting my expectations.
I did not have APC when I started.
An aviation career is about the airplane and nothing else. You can't count on wages, lifestyle or even being able to stay in your own country.
Skyhigh
Having guy like me around to flesh out the negatives I believe is a good thing. If someone can endure the full brunt of my presentation of the downside and still is game to press on then perhaps they belong.
I for one would have run had I known all that I was up against. My intent with this career was to make a good living and to build a good life. I made a huge investment in education training and almost two decades of my life only to learn that it was not going come even close to meeting my expectations.
I did not have APC when I started.
An aviation career is about the airplane and nothing else. You can't count on wages, lifestyle or even being able to stay in your own country.
Skyhigh
07-06-2009, 01:13 PM
#70
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: C47 PIC/747-400 SIC
Posts: 2,100
[QUOTE=SkyHigh;640208]I would like to add that I think it is important that people who are considering this profession be provided with a full and honest accounting of what a life in aviation entails. It is natural for those in aviation to project an optimum bias.
Having guy like me around to flesh out the negatives I believe is a good thing. If someone can endure the full brunt of my presentation of the downside and still is game to press on then perhaps they belong.
I for one would have run had I known all that I was up against. My intent with this career was to make a good living and to build a good life. I made a huge investment in education training and almost two decades of my life only to learn that it was not going come even close to meeting my expectations.
I did not have APC when I started.
An aviation career is about the airplane and nothing else. You can't count on wages, lifestyle or even being able to stay in your own country.
Skyhigh[/QUOTE
I stand by my last posts
Having guy like me around to flesh out the negatives I believe is a good thing. If someone can endure the full brunt of my presentation of the downside and still is game to press on then perhaps they belong.
I for one would have run had I known all that I was up against. My intent with this career was to make a good living and to build a good life. I made a huge investment in education training and almost two decades of my life only to learn that it was not going come even close to meeting my expectations.
I did not have APC when I started.
An aviation career is about the airplane and nothing else. You can't count on wages, lifestyle or even being able to stay in your own country.
Skyhigh[/QUOTE
I stand by my last posts
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