Lakes Bro on its belly in DEN
 

Anybody see the Great lakes Brasilia on its belly on the ramp in DEN yesterday? Im just curious how does something like that happen? Are there not squat switches to prevent such a thing, of course im sure there was some sort of malfunction with them. Anybody that knows, care to explain the details?

What's this little lever do ?

:eek:

My guess is the squat switch was deferred.

Landing gear was repossessed. Guess these are tough times even for the prop jobs.

You know the gear is up and locked when it takes full power to taxi to the gate.

Don't know about the Bro, but there is a WoW override button for the gear handle on the Saab. I've had to use it once before when the gear handle solenoid lock failed to disengage after takeoff. It'll work on the ground as well (equals a bad day if you're trying to prove it won't allow the gear to come up on the ground).

Rumor I heard was mx was working on the airplane and left the gear handle up after working on it. The FO came in and fired up the APU and hydraulics and bam, the gear retracted. It's been a while since I had anything to do with an Embraer, but if I remember the ERJ correctly, and the Bro is anything like it, the WoW switches cause a j-hook to physically prevent the gear handle from being moved up while on the ground. This j-hook can be overridden with a button next to the gear handle in case there is some sort of malfunction with the system. Once overridden, the handle can be moved and still actuates the gear retraction. From what I can remember, that is all that prevents the gear from being retracted on the ground. Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong.

Here's a couple pics I took last night. Sorry for the crappy quality, my cell phone sucks.

http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w...1/SSPX0383.jpg

http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w...1/SSPX0382.jpg

That's a relief. I was afraid it had something to do with fatigue...

bet you get a new item to the APU start checklist. Something like varify Mx didnt leave the gear handle up....:D That sucks we are all capable of an embarrasing mistake, although this one decidedly is pretty big...

In all honesty though I doubt it did much actual damage to the plane, more embarrasing then anything, thank God no one was near it though when it went.

In addition to sheet metal, gear doors, and antenna the props and hubs are probably toast, and they will probably need to tear down and inspect the gearbox...my guess is that it will be scrapped.

Damnit...you owe me a new keyboard...I spit my cereal milk all over my computer!!!


Well played!

While I'm sure it will get inspected, it doesnt look like the props hit anything from the angle of pic I saw. Mabye more damage than meets the eye, but I highly doubt this bird is going to be scrapped, cant be damaged that bad, Its not like this was a gear up landing

Correct but you still need hydraulics and we don't turn them on until after the engines have been started. Unless we are doing the first flight rudder check but at SKW 99.99% of the time only the CA’s do the FFOD Originating Check and IF we let the FO’s do it we are there observing so they get it right. It’s a very long series of systems checks and FO’s just don’t do them that often, they’re plates are already full in the morning.

BTW, do you Lakers turn the hydraulics on after you start the APU? Why? You don’t need them unless you drop the parking/emergency brake? Or maybe he was trying to suck the Hydraulic Gear doors back up.

On the 170, before any AC power is established, the checklist says to make sure the Landing gear lever is DOWN.

Is there a checklist item on the Bro to do this too before power is established?

THERE might be if THEIR company has one and THEY'RE using it properly.






OO.

So it was pilot error :cool:

Sorry this happened. Was it one of the pos planes at least? :D

Wonder what they pay the mechanics, 11.50 a hour? Love those sign your life away jobs. for peanuts.

It's lakes, they most definitely won't scrap it. But it is a bro and our mx program for the burrito machine is a little slow at times so getting it back online might take the better part of the next year.
I can't say whether or not the checklist already calls to check this prior to starting the APU but if not, they've been adding checklist items to us all year so this would seem a highly likely addition.
Looks like I can expect JR Mans on the Beech to increase as we pick up their flying.

Wish I could answer but I'm on the Beech, not the Bro. Just have some ERJ experience so I assumed some of the systems are very similar. I suppose the mechanic who had the gear lever up also could have had the hydraulics in AUTO mode (assuming it's similar to the ERJ) and as soon as the electric pumps kicked on then the gear went up. I do know that our flow for starting up the APU at TSA included a check to make sure the gear handle was down. I'd heard (again, just rumor) that the FO was firing things up before the CA was there so no acceptance check had been done yet by the CA. Only other reason I could think of as far as turning on the hydraulics is if he wanted to close the door for some reason and the accumulator was low on pressure or something (once again assuming similar systems to the ERJ).

Don't we all verify gear handle down before turning electrical on? I was taught that day one with re-tracts.

OK, OK, I was talking tongue in cheek....:D remember I said (verify mx didnt leave it up)...like I said embarrassing mistake most likely a contributing factor being in a hurry. Plane just came out of mx so I assume they were already delayed.

SkyWest geared up a Bro on the ground in PSP a few months ago... similar to this situation. MX was swinging the gear after doing some repairs/inspection. The last part of the procedure requires a manual free-fall, in which the gear handle is placed in the UP position (so you can see all disagreement/down-locked indications). Well, after they did it, they allegedly forgot to put the handle down. The following morning when it was time to reposition the plane from the hanger to the gate, MX hoped in the plane, flowed the switches, fired up the APU, time to close the door... what? No juice? Flip on the hydraulic pump and BOOM... up goes the gear. Originally they were going to part it out but now they're apparently rebuilding it (can you say "time-and-a-half). It may have been 232SW. It hasn't flown for months and isn't scheduled to return to service until January. Why can't they get rid of pigs like that when it comes to deciding which "Bro's" go.

Looks like the old girl was just tired and needed to lay down for a bit.

Wow, a gear up at the gate.

Did they foam the tarmac?

Nope, they foamed all the runways after it happened, just in case.

Then DEN had a ground stop.

I couldn't help but think of Peter Griffin in the airplane looking at the "DO NOT PULL" sign next to the emergency exit door of the plane... Did some young FO succumb to a pang of curiosity and tug on the gear lever? :D

Skywest has a "Landing Gear Lever... DOWN" step on their initial power up checklist for the Brasilia, also. Somebody didn't power the aircraft up correctly. I'm guessing he/she ran the hydraulics for a second to suck the gear doors up, and they got a little more than they planned for!

You act like it is a very difficult and lengthy process that only the Mighty Captain can perform. The FO's at Lakes do the FFOD items. IF the Captain does these tests, the FO supervises him because he forget how to do some of them and he needs to know them for his recurrent.

It may have been the first flight of the day because MX was working on it. Or they might have turned the pump on because of the main door or gear doors. The Acceptance checklist (also done by the FO) calls to check that the gear is down before powering up the APU.

Ground stop in DEN?!?!? Unheard of.

I expected that from someone, thanks for not letting me down. :rolleyes: Here, let me highlight the parts you missed.

99% of the time FO's at SKW only do the “FFOD” originating check during their PC's (every 12 months). If they ask I will allow them the opportunity and I'll teach where I see problems. But the FFOD's can take a while to perform and are very detailed so when time is not on your side, slowly working your way through the checks is an issue, CA or FO. I will not let an FO complete the FFOD OC without me being present.

Don’t make this about whose root is larger; it has nothing to do with being a CA and everything to do with recency and repetition. :confused: Ever heard of those terms? BTW, this is just how it's done at SKW.

Good day.

We just got tired of having an extra airplane to do all of the beech's EAR, LAR and CYS turns. Now you can have them back!:)

Well, it seems like everyone is interested in what occurred, but unfortunately I wasn't there. I have spoken to many people and it seems like they're not really full on all of the fact to make a determination at this time.

1) MX was working on the gear system prior to the FO coming out.

2) The FO ran the acceptance (which the CA's and FO's are trained to do) which requires multiple checks of "gear down". The flow itself adds the gear and the checklist also requests it too, along with a "consumables" check. We turn on the power select switch to verify the gear lights, hydr fluid, and fuel.

3) The APU was started, and the hydraulics were turned on to suck up the gear doors, but only momentarily. I've heard the FO never sat in his seat (did everything kneeling on the jumpseat which is fine) which takes the idea that his foot hit the gear handle and moved it up.

4) Gear retracted after he exited the airplane to verify the doors closed.

5) Something caused this...unfortunately no one will tell me!

This I have no doubt of. :D

As in most cases there are many versions of the same story, but this is what i heard....

The previous crew wrote up the left transit 'B' light saying it was burnt out. Performed the postflight and shut down the AC ( it wasnt to fly for a few hours).

Maint. proceded to change bulb, but apparently that didnt fix the "problem."

They proceded to change the entire control box (the part with the handle, lights, and gear down lock release), when the new unit was installed the gear handle was in the up position. No gear swing was done and they failed to see the six 'disagrement' lights (gear in the down position, handle in up position). AC powered down and signed off.

In comes the next poor FO to start the APU getting ready for the next flight, somehow hydraulics were left on from the maint, or they were turned on to close the door (not exactly sure why hyd. were turned on), and up comes the gear and down gose the airplane.


That is what I know, anybody got anything to add?

There were a few fire department personel at the plane learning how to operate the main airstair door. I had just arrived and was walking in from the ramp when I saw them fooling around with it. Since there were a few aircraft on the ramp with the APU's running, I can't say for sure if this particular plane had its APU running already but I would imagine it did. It was departing within the hour and the fuelers need electrical power to pump the gas so I'm sure Mx fired it up if they hadn't already while they were working on it. During the course of playing with the door, the FD ran the hyrolic accumulator out of juice and needed a bump off the hyro pump to charge the door. The FO hopped in and turned on the pump and BAM!

I was about 50 feet away when it happened but there was another plane blocking my view. I heard it alright. by the time I got there the FO was out of the plane and everyone was looking confused. If the plane was indeed powered up with the APU running the poor FO suffers from incredibly bad luck.

In other news, there's an opening for a mechanic and a first officer at GLA...

But seriously, what ship number was that? My butt had warmed the right seat in all of their bros at one point.

I hear they canned the FO right on the spot.

I was not making it about whose "root is larger", you were... when you said "IF we let them" like you are the high and mighty captain who knows all.
You have more recency and repetition on landing the plane, so do you not let your FO's land either? At Lakes the FO's do (or at least "did") those checks. It isn't difficult for anyone of average intelligence. I think it is fine that the Captains do it at SKW. Just don't act like you are king S#it on Turd mountain because you are the captain.