I will say yet again that the Captain was hired into the regional world with around 400 hours. The argument for tougher entry requirements has everything to do with this accident. We will never know if an additional 1100 hours (getting him to 1500 TT) before going to the airlines would have helped to avoid the accident, but I for one would bet it would have.


I couldn't agree more. If the public perception of the Regional Airlines were to become so bad that the public refused to board a plane that wasn't operated by the Major, then I would bet that flying went back to the Majors. Prater's comments are a step in that direction.

I have no intention of making a career at a Regional. It is however, getting harder and harder to move on since more of the flying is now completed by the Regionals. Unless the public demands a change, or the FAA or Congress regulate it, the flying will continue to come our way. Making us look as bad as possible in front of the nation may just be the only way to bring about the change. So be it.

 

Getting him to 1500 hours wouldn't have avoided the accident. A thorough review of his back ground may have kept him out of the airplane though. I really can't agree that someone needs 1100 hours in a 172 to be anymore qualified at an airline. You're not seeing icing, your not dealing with complex aircraft your simply burning time at that point.

You guys are are trying to fix something that doesn't want to be fixed. You are going to get such a small percentage of people who will look at this vs. price that it won't make a dent. Furthermore my point is that if ALPA is going to take a regional pilots money then they should be defending regional pilots not throwing them under the bus.

Welcome to the real world fella, this will blow over like everything else does and people will go back to paying as little as possible. All this is going to achieve is even more people sitting in the back of YOUR airplane questioning whether or not YOU are qualified. They certainly aren't going to demand you get paid more if they already think you're a looser. And why wouldn't they if the people you pay for representation are agreeing.

On a side note, I fly with a lot of REALLY STUPID college grads that can tell me a whole lot about nothing. Even their aviation degrees are bull crap. What do I care if they know the logistics of managing an airline, I want to be flying with someone who can keep their wits and follow an SOP when the **** hits the fan or even improvise when it's time the SOP doesn't work. Not some douche waiving a sheepskin in my face or wearing his alma mater around his neck on a lanyard. I'd be proud of a place me or worse yet my parents spent all the money at too. It's like buying a Harley shirt I suppose, matter of fact they should give those away.

 

Again if ALPA is going to take regional pilots money for representation the least they could do is represent them. I think the USAPA pilots just lost a court case for that same reason, maybe you ALPA regional guys should get together and sue to get your dues back.

Again the only thing that brought this light was the fact that people died. So far as what is being said this pilot acted in error. Can anyone agree that the Fed EX crew trying to salvage a crap approach and bounced landed could have done things differently? No one but them died, so not much political gain their, every day a regional crew makes the right decision in an emergency situation and we never hear about it because no one dies.

If the government is going to dictate what type of education and what sort of qualifications are to deemed as minimums to the Airline Industry they better be prepared for the ACLU to come after them to provide scholarships and tuition's for those that can't afford it. You shouldn't need to be wealthy to do this job and due to the costs that is what it has become. Now it may become law to be that way. Another slippery slope for this government to fall on its ass on.

And if you are telling me I need an Art History degree to upgrade... I wish I had a Law Degree to know how to answer that one.

 

This is the (completely useless) form letter the TSA sends when queried about CrewPass:

Thank you for e-mail concerning the Transportation Security Administration's (TSA) evaluation and implementation of a sterile area access system, as required by the Implementing Recommendations of the 9/11 Commission Act of 2007 (9/11 Act).

TSA remains committed to developing a sterile area access system to provide crewmembers expedited access through the screening checkpoint to support the operational needs of crewmembers and consequently satisfy the requirements of the 9/11 Act. TSA has previously acknowledged that the Air Line Pilots Association's (ALPA) Crew Personnel Advanced Security System (CrewPASS) concept represents an excellent basis for a sterile area access system and agreed to evaluate this proposal.

The 9/11 Act requires TSA to examine the feasibility of instituting a sterile area access system and provide any recommendations in a report to Congress. On March 26, 2008, the U.S. Department of Homeland Security submitted a report to Congress on efforts to institute a sterile area access system in accordance with Section 1614 of the 9/11 Act. The report outlined TSA's progress with this initiative but also provided an opportunity to clarify the numerous challenges associated with instituting a sterile area access system such as CrewPASS. TSA has informed ALPA that these challenges must also be taken into consideration.

Given the complex nature of creating a nationwide sterile area access system, TSA intends to test the feasibility of any sterile area access system on a pilot basis at selected airports before instituting a system on a national level. Pilot testing will allow TSA to test concepts and adjust or enhance any system to make wider deployment feasible. While we cannot provide a detailed timeline at this point, TSA is developing a plan to test a sterile area access system at multiple airports during this calendar year. We are keeping ALPA and our other aviation security partners apprised of all developments associated with this effort.

We hope this information is helpful.


TSA Contact Center

 

1100 hours in a 172? Who knows.


But maybe if he got another 1100 hours with experienced Captains when he was an FO?


For example -
The CVR captured First Officer Shaw remarking that she didn't want to upgrade until she spent a winter in the right seat. Her classmates hoped to upgrade sooner. Why are guys at some airlines upgrading in a year?


You wouldn't fret over seeing ice for the first time sitting next to a seasoned Captain. But what if you're seeing ice for the first time, and your Captain is only seeing it for the third time?


Remember Sully (or whoever) saying that a pilot starts with a bag full of luck and gradually replaces it with experience?


If you're going from 400 hours to the left seat, learning from third-year Captains, who learned from their third-year Captains, and so on... you have inexperience inbreeding inexperience.


That's a whole lot of pilots flying around with bags kinda full of luck.

 

First, I am in the cargo industry and part of an independent or "in-house" union. There is NO way I would go with any other type of representation.

Second, bigger is not always better. We have an industry leading contract because our union is 100% staffed by our own and 100% representing our pilots.

Third, if you want better representation why don't you work on forming a union which specifically deals with and represents only regionals?

 

You are absolutley right....my point above was that it will never exist....I think a Regional Airline Union may be a good thing....maybe something will get accomplished

 

Very Very Very true. I don't understand that 6 month or less upgrade BS. Especially with some Dbags that upgrade and think they are gods from the minute they get into the left seat. That needs to be changed. Personally I will take an upgrade when I am good and ready even if that means putting off the higher salary for a little while longer. Luckily in the current times, people have plenty of time to gain experience in the right seat.

 

I'm not an ALPA cheerleader, but read what I wrote in response to you earlier.

That would be cool if we could sue for some money back on the grounds that our interests were not fully represented.

Maybe you should sue IBT for some better representation. That is, unless you're completely happy making $37/hr on the that 170. If you're OK with not being able to bid across fleets. If you are happy with your current cancellation pay policy, etc

Wow, you got some solid inside info on that accident? Please, do tell all the details, inquiring minds would like to know.

Did the LSAS play and part in that?

 

Yea...didn't one of their main union guys get accused and/ or charged with fraud? Still Grounded maybe you have some insight, maybe you should get your dues back.