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Old 08-18-2009 | 07:56 PM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by ScaryKite
I keep hearing about all this jazz about united and delta pulling contracts from RAH cause of competition. Its not going to happen.

a. Its a contract (can be broken various ways but i doubt there is a clause that covers if one of the parties involved buys an airline to compete with the other.)
You can probably own equity (ie stock) in a competing airline without any trouble. But actually being involved in operating said airline, and integrating it with a codeshare regional probably violates any regional feed contract.

Originally Posted by ScaryKite
b. BB is not that stupid, he would never bite the hand that feeds him....not yet at least. yeah you may not like him, but i think he knows how to run an airline.
Probably true. But he may be taking a chance that his contract is vague enough that he can win in court. Or he may be assuming that UAL will liquidate soon and there's nothing to lose.

Originally Posted by ScaryKite
c. Have any of you ever thought that there might be a little cahooting going on here. You think its possible that Delta and or United gave RAH their blessing in purchasing Midwest and Frontier to compete with good ole Southwest.

Because unless you've been in a box for 20 years. you might notice that WN has been handing the legacies arses to them. Maybe just maybe they, (Delta, United) would consider it advantageous for some of their partners to compete with southwest to run them out, or loose some market share of markets here and there. WN has been strong for a long while. But their fuel hedges are coming to an end. DEN isnt working like they planned and all in all loads are down system wide. I believe RAHs mainline codeshares would appreciate a little competetion if they could be on the side of the one who throws a blow at their main competition. Then again WN could almost buy Rjet for what they were willing to bid for F9. Lets wait and see.
Highly unlikely...to the point of being ludicrous. UAL managers cannot see past the end of their own noses, much less hatch some devious scheme to crush SWA. Not to mention there are probably all kinds of anti-trust issues with multiple airlines conniving to run a competitor out of certain markets.

Might UAL look the other way the situation works in their favor? Sure.
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Old 08-18-2009 | 07:57 PM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by rickair7777
There are conflicting requirements here....

The RAH scope requires everyone on one list.

F9 pilots have a contract, which will be binding on the new owners (unless modified in BK).

There is a new federal law requiring "Fair and Equitable" integration of seniority lists.


The only obvious way to satisfy all three legal and contractual requirements is to merge

- F9 into RAH (Satisfies RAH Scope)
- Fence F9 so all F9 FO's can upgrade into airbii (satisfies the integration law)
- Keep F9 payscales for Aibii (satisfies F9 pilot contract).

If you do it any other way, you violate a law or contract, make a lot of folks angry, and spend years in arbitration/lawsuits.

There is one other really ugly scenario, but it depends on F9 scope with regards to code-shares...if there are no restrictions on code-share, the good reverend could simply fire the F9 pilots, shift the arbii to RAH and fly them as a code-share in F9 paint...virtual airline. Or he could sell the airbii and use 190s.

If you any of you RAH types think YOU should upgrade ahead of a 7-year F9 FO, you need to be slapped silly. Ya'll should just sit down shut up and hope like heck that F9 payscales make into your contract, and not vice-versa.
Rick if you can point me in a better direction I'll thank you for it but as far as I can tell "fair and equitable" isn't anything defined about how list must be merged but instead a promise that due process will be afforded to everyone. One union can submit to another their proposal and the other can deny or accept then counter and eventually go to arbitration. I've understood it to afford each group the same liberties and process that must be followed allowing each to object or agree at key points. Kind of like how each criminal is guaranteed a certain due process. He might be on video committing murder but he's still entitled to the full legal system.
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Old 08-18-2009 | 08:01 PM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by Blueridger
Uhmmm, no, the passengers will not continue flying on "mainline household names". They will be flying on a far inferior product serviced by individuals making far inferior wages in an airplane that simply has the painted name of a once great airline sprawled along its fuselage. That creates a huge difference in the product. In my eyes, Midwest is dead, because those that made it such a great airline are no longer working there......

But hey, good luck with your dream. Just remember, the harder they come, the harder they fall.
I guess the assumption is that RAH employees cannot provide the customer with good customer service simply because they arent Midwest employees. Yeah, for that matter I suppose no regional airline employee can provide decent customer service. And all the Midwest station employees...well they dont count either I spose...Not sure exactly how the product changes if it doesnt exist. You know like the "product" that was the thriving MKE route structure prior to RAH's takeover. OH WAIT a second, it wasnt much of a product after all. Thats not the point. The point is RAH came to MKE and dismantled a once great airline. They single handidly tore apart Midwest and left the carcass to rot in the heat. And how did they do that? Well when Republic had the chance to sell Midwest to Airtran they fought the hostile takeover. And then Republic sold Midwest to Northwest and TPG in hopes of straightening out the finances. And then Republic went ahead shut down Skyway as an air carrier and hired skywest on. And then Republic outsourced most of the outstations to American Eagle. And then Republic sold all of the MD 80s. And then Republic went and sold the 717s. If I missed anything else Republic did, please feel free to add.
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Old 08-18-2009 | 09:35 PM
  #24  
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IMHO...a truly great post. I'm sure you'll get no rebuttal as most of the trolls have their head in the sand. The jealousy that rings out in these threads is glaring. **Shrugs shoulders**
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Old 08-18-2009 | 09:40 PM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by IMHO
If I missed anything else Republic did, please feel free to add.
They sold themselves to Northwest Orient in 1986
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Old 08-18-2009 | 09:43 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by iPilot
Feelings on a regional flying E-190s aside I'd be cautious about joining Republic's ranks. They're walking into a snake pit directly competing in the airline markets. Just thinking they'll have a competitive advantage using regional pilots and aircraft on mainline routes may not be enough. After all, majors like United can leverage strength in other markets like international to bring down prices in DEN and MKE. And lets not forget Southwest who has been beating down Frontier and Midwest for years.

Republic might have a strong cash position now but so did Independence and XJT before their venture into operating their own brands.


Wouldn't work for Republic if you don't have too. This pilot group is becoming the the "virtual scabs" for our profession. Add to that the pilot group that turned down Southwest jobs and pay guarantees.

You will get no respect.




ps. To answer the next Frontier pilot posting. I hope you are kept separate from Republic... don't count on it.
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Old 08-18-2009 | 09:49 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by MD80
Wouldn't work for Republic if you don't have too. This pilot group is becoming the the "virtual scabs" for our profession.
The fact that you can use the "s" word so easily says a lot about yourself. How pathetic.
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Old 08-18-2009 | 09:52 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by MD80
You will get no respect.
From who? Everyone respects Frontier. Nice place, happy employees, even happier customers. Hopefully that tradition will continue. Why would you call them scabs? Simply because a holdings company purchased them? What has changed with them since the purchase? You think it was the pilot group that made the decision about who purchased them?
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Old 08-18-2009 | 10:00 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by IMHO
I guess the assumption is that RAH employees cannot provide the customer with good customer service simply because they arent Midwest employees. Yeah, for that matter I suppose no regional airline employee can provide decent customer service. And all the Midwest station employees...well they dont count either I spose...Not sure exactly how the product changes if it doesnt exist. You know like the "product" that was the thriving MKE route structure prior to RAH's takeover. OH WAIT a second, it wasnt much of a product after all. Thats not the point. The point is RAH came to MKE and dismantled a once great airline. They single handidly tore apart Midwest and left the carcass to rot in the heat. And how did they do that? Well when Republic had the chance to sell Midwest to Airtran they fought the hostile takeover. And then Republic sold Midwest to Northwest and TPG in hopes of straightening out the finances. And then Republic went ahead shut down Skyway as an air carrier and hired skywest on. And then Republic outsourced most of the outstations to American Eagle. And then Republic sold all of the MD 80s. And then Republic went and sold the 717s. If I missed anything else Republic did, please feel free to add.

I get it. Republic can do no wrong.

I think you need to stop drinking that kool-aid BB is giving you in the morning.
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Old 08-18-2009 | 11:55 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by MD80
Wouldn't work for Republic if you don't have too. This pilot group is becoming the the "virtual scabs" for our profession.
Its funny how people use the "s" word so casually, yet they're only showing their ignorance on the subject. Walk the picket lines first, than we can debate about it.
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