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-   -   A Crisis in Flight Training (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/regional/44633-crisis-flight-training.html)

Swedish Blender 10-09-2009 07:52 AM

My advice to all the CFIs looking for multi is to look around your field. Are there any MEIs? Are there weekend warriors or guys you see fly their own twins?

I was the only MEI on the field and lucked out. Several pilots had twins and one in particular had a B-55, but was scared to death of it. Stories ran rampant as to why, supposedly he came out of a cloud inverted, but back to the point. See if anyone needs a little refresher on instrument procedures in their twin, safety pilot, anything (even wash it if it'll get you some time). You may find that the pilot owner likes having an instructor along more times than not. You get paid and get the time.

rickair7777 10-09-2009 07:55 AM


Originally Posted by hockeypilot44 (Post 691330)
There is a problem with your theory. When you fly for a living for a few years, you are not nursing. Therefore, you have zero nursing experience when it's time to look for a nursing job. It is extremely hard to find a job with zero experience in any profession.

Nursing (and other medical specialties) are great fallback jobs in the sense that they are VERY portable, and you can always find part-time work wherever you may be. Do a little bit on your days off to stay current and make a little beer money, and then you can quickly ramp up to full time when aviation eventually falls through.

milehigh1976 10-09-2009 08:11 AM

I just want to chime an opinion in about the funding problem. This is a hindsight is 20/20 perspective and rhetorical more than anything because it is a very sensative topic for me, personally. Flight schools such as ATA, TAB Express, and Silver State Helicopters who hustled their unsuspecting students out of loans, hence through litigation screwed the banks out of millions was a major contributing factor for the aviation training funding to go away. Key Bank was a major loan provider for aviation training. They got burned too many times, and now are no longer in the aviation finance business. Two cents worth, complete.

sweptwing 10-09-2009 08:12 AM

Last post...future airline management

Std Deviation 10-09-2009 09:35 AM

State of Training DFW
 
In Dallas/Ft Worth I'm seeing two types of flight training (more like hearing it over the radio): Foreigners paying usurious amounts for a Cessna 152 and then returning to their home country or high net worth individuals buying a glass cockpit aircraft and learning to fly in it. I deal with the latter.

In the late 90's I owned a mom and pop school in the Detroit area. Most of my clients were only after a Private and/or Instrument. Their background....autoworkers. Line guys, not skilled trades. These were guys making 80K a year putting on hubcabs. Then spending it learning to fly. Take a look at Trade a Plane and you can see the state of the GA market.

The middle class folks, including those who financed their kids flight training are pretty much drying up. And frankly, I'm getting concerned about the future freedom of even using a small FBO to learn to fly. The potential of user fees and the like is scaring everyone. They've already eliminated written testing centers and chart sales to all but the biggest operators. It's tough to stay in business on training fees alone. As I know, especially in February in Michigan.

FlyJSH 10-09-2009 12:40 PM


Originally Posted by NoStep (Post 691213)
Are you serious? Really, do you have info I don't on op's that are currently hiring? can you pm me if online?
p.s. LOVE the Avatar of Herman...my old man was North Central/Republic(the real one)/Northwest.

Can't PM you, sorry. Looks like you don't have enough posts.

Go to every airport and FBO within two hours drive, talk to anyone who will listen, and pass out a resume to anybody who will take one. Given the choice, most employers would rather hire locals, so looking close to home is a good start.

Right off the bat I would look at Mountain Air, Ameriflight, AirNow, Flight Express, Star Check, Cape Air and a few others come to mind. Check their websites every day. They each have a job or two a month open up, but they fill instantly. If you have prior 135 time highlight it. These folks don't care about how well you can read a release, they want to know if you, all by yourself, can manage and fly a route. The places I have worked (and been involved in hiring), 121 doesn't mean much: "Airline Pilots" are a bunch of prima donas.

First, google "Cargo Air Carriers" and "Charter airlines" check each of them out.
Next, look up every (yes, Every) air carrier focusing on smaller ones.
Data Base Products (the "Other" data base)
Then go through this list
Airline codes-All - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


As you research each airline, make a speadsheet of who you qualify for, who you are close to qualifying for, pay, location, equipment, and anything else that is important to you. Mine goes back a decade..... and No, you can't get a copy. (I'll tell you how, but the leg work is up to you)

Send everybody a resume even if they say they are not hiring. One day they WILL be hiring.

Finally, when you are at the FBOs, ask about a line job. If they offer one, take it. Line guys/gals and the girls behind the counters know everything that goes on at the airport: who is buying a plane, selling a plane, needs a pilot, needs a flight review, etc. Pumping avgas may not be sexy, but it pays the bills and keeps you around airplanes and people who own them.

After you have done all this, go back to the top and start again.

Good Luck


Originally Posted by GRpilot (Post 691344)
What an ignorant statement! Where have you been the last year or so?
There are no flying jobs out there!

The same place I have been for the last 12 years. Flying or out of work. Either way, I am always looking for my next job.

And there always are jobs.

Pilot Ace 10-09-2009 12:51 PM

Definately have to agree with that, I'm a CFI for a community college in Colorado. This fall semester, we had three new students, as opposed to over twenty last year. Also, over 50% of the current students are having funding issues and are planning on leaving, definately not a great outlook.

AZFlyn1 10-09-2009 02:30 PM


Originally Posted by Lab Rat (Post 690859)
You are worth ZERO as an FO regardless of your qualifications.

Start with that mindset when you negotiate with your employer - whether it be via collective bargaining or one-on-one with a potential non-union employer. We don't deserve anything and our value is worth nothing. It is strictly a numbers and business game and not an emotional game. That is why management is always one step ahead of you - because they know how to negotiate and most of us are hung up on what we think we are worth.

Donald Trump and Warren Buffet didn't become billionaires because that is what they thought they were owed - they mastered the art of the deal.


No offense labrat, but that's a very easy thing to say when you're making UPS wages...

TonyWilliams 10-09-2009 03:13 PM


I wrote that, "She was interested in nursing (her aunt is an RN), so hopefully she'll get an nursing degree and a year or two of work experience."

Originally Posted by hockeypilot44 (Post 691330)
There is a problem with your theory. When you fly for a living for a few years, you are not nursing. Therefore, you have zero nursing experience when it's time to look for a nursing job. It is extremely hard to find a job with zero experience in any profession.


You are going to able to get a job in the medical field with an old nursing degree and formerly a few years of nursing experience. In hard times, you'll beat out the high school grad with a big smile and big dreams for that medical assistant job. It'll get you in the door.

Just like when the hiring starts in the airlines, the guy with ATP, XX thousand hours of experience, and type rating will probably get the job before the CFI with big dreams.

TonyWilliams 10-09-2009 03:27 PM


Originally Posted by mshunter (Post 691245)
I say to all those who are in the industry-------brothers unite. Organize a mass walkout of EVERY airline and demand better wages. What would they do, fire the entire workforce? Then who would fly?


Ya, history does repeat itself.... ATC's said that in the days leading up to Aug 3, 1981.

Good luck with your plan.


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