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Originally Posted by HSLD
(Post 690967)
Gee, ya think? :) I would imagine the conversation with the "industry experts" would follow the same logic as tobacco execs claiming their product doesn't cause cancer. Follow the money.
Did anyone else read that article and see it as an annual re-cap of the flight training forum? I've been a member of APC since Dec '05/Jan. '06, and every year since my joining, there has been talk of a pilot shortage. Heck, they were even talking about that when I was at Riddle in the 80's. However, it's not the airlines that is promoting this so called "shortage". It's the DCA's, AllATP's and the like. atp |
There is going to be a shortage, just like in 2007. It'll mostly be at the regionals, take it for what it is. Starting around 2013 or 2014, if you're willing to stay at a regional for 5 or more years, you would probably be "senior", making 60-70k/yr, and have a decent schedule. Not exacly as good as being a senior FO at Delta, but still not bad compared to a lot of other professions.
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Originally Posted by 20sx
(Post 691324)
There is going to be a shortage, just like in 2007. It'll mostly be at the regionals, take it for what it is. Starting around 2013 or 2014, if you're willing to stay at a regional for 5 or more years, you would probably be "senior", making 60-70k/yr, and have a decent schedule. Not exacly as good as being a senior FO at Delta, but still not bad compared to a lot of other professions.
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Originally Posted by TonyWilliams
(Post 691218)
I met my cousin's 17 y.o. daughter at a wedding for the first time last year. She announced that she was going to be a pilot, and knew that I flew, so we chatted. This was slightly before SkyWest cancelled its July 7, 2008 new hire class.
I told her then the same thing I would tell anybody who intends to pursue any unique job with limited numbers of employers. Get the education / background / certificate / license in ANY other mainstream, widespread career. She was interested in nursing (her aunt is an RN), so hopefully she'll get an nursing degree and a year or two of work experience. Any job that can be found in the average town would be fine. I know military is a backup for many in this business, but that follows cycles of political cash and wars. Nurse, cop, fireman, teacher, truck driver, EMT, plumber, computer geek, etc. |
Originally Posted by hockeypilot44
(Post 691330)
There is a problem with your theory. When you fly for a living for a few years, you are not nursing. Therefore, you have zero nursing experience when it's time to look for a nursing job. It is extremely hard to find a job with zero experience in any profession.
Believe it or not, other careers require paying some dues also. |
Originally Posted by FlyJSH
(Post 691211)
Can you file a flight plan?
Are you willing to move to Del Rio, TX; Truth or Consequences, NM; Missoula, MT; Pasco, WA; or some other one horse town? Are you willing to load cargo or carry the boss' bags? Are you willing to fuel the plane? Are you willing to fly a piston twin? ... how about a single? If you answered yes, there are jobs to be had. If not, you are making it pretty hard. What an ignorant statement! Where have you been the last year or so? There are no flying jobs out there! |
Originally Posted by Convairator
(Post 691314)
This entire article/idea/premise is total hogwash. Flight schools, especially ATP, DCA, and other puppy mills, along with aviation and pilot associations like AOPA have a financial incentive to say that there is going to be a pilot shortage. This also includes university flight schools. They are stating a false premise to help ensure their own future financial viability while simultaneously misleading the public, and young guys and gals who think flying is totally awesome and being a pilot is now their goal.
There will be however, a shortage of people willing to work for the wages the airlines are willing to pay. |
Originally Posted by DashDriverYV
(Post 691038)
I plan on having a profession in flying. This means that I will be here far longer then 6-7 years. I want this ATP requirement to stop the ability of the management to undercut me with SJS kids in 7 years. So long term, not right now, that is why every one is talking about it.
Congress cannot legislate a living wage for you, but this might help cover your assets when you are actually making a living wage someday. Maybe. |
Originally Posted by snippercr
(Post 691155)
As a barely employed CFI not even considering the regionals for several years, if they started requiring ATP to fly FO (which when I got into aviation, I thought they did... my mistake then), at least to me and my fellow instructors at my school it's just another checkride.
We think of it this way: most airlines, regardless of TT, will probably start asking for at least 100 hours of multi. Where are you going to get those 100 hours of multi? Part 135? Well they will not hire you into their twins without 1200 hours at least or a couple hundred multi. Instructing? Probably, but the line of instructors to teach ONE multi student (gets you maybe 10-15 hours dual given) is several places long. We are expecting to have 1500 to 2000 hours dual given before we even get a multi student. This mirrors what is going on at many other schools. Multi hours are so coveted that you have to wait a few years before you can give dual in a seminole and by then you already have your ATP mins. Just giving the request CFI's perspective. I suspect that due to Colgan, the regionals will also specify ATP required or preferred, at least at first when they have plenty of applicants. |
Originally Posted by AirWillie
(Post 691039)
Ab initios work other places because there's a gap between a 172 and a 737, they can't get experienced pilots so they have to make their own. With so many qualified pilots here I don't think we'll see ab intio for a very long time. To people that think it's not fair, it's for the best. The article did a good job of rasing the other point, yes it's going to be harder for people to start flying, but what about when you actually make it to an airline? Right now, all that means is horrible QOL and low pay for years. So is it worth it anyways?
However...I might not be opposed to an ab-initio program here. While suspect there will always be CFI jobs, who knows if there will be enough intermediate 91/135 work in larger ME airplanes to provide experience for all the pilots needed by the airlines. The good thing about ab-initio is that it can be VERY selective...offering free training and an airline job might attract some talent, especially kids without a lot of money who might be very motivated. Also if they airline have to actually pay to train their employees, they might have a vested interest in taking care of them in the long run. For any endeavor you would ideally want talented people with a lot of experience, but if you can't have both I would prefer talent, which can be trained in the long run. |
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