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Originally Posted by Rightseat Ballast
(Post 720368)
No, no, You got it all wrong. The IBT and BB are in on this together, and obviosuly BB has been in bed with TPG and MEH for YEARS now. Even the RAH EXCO has been dutifully keeping pay low just to help BB realize his master plan of buying a massive 25 aircraft airline, and the RAH pilots have been quietly helping this plot along the whole time. Conspiracy! Conspiracy! CONSPIRACY!!!!!!!
EVERYONE has been conspiring against the MEH pilots for years, because MEH pilots and their astronomical pay have been the biggest roadblock in this industry to lowering everyone's pay. They had to be wiped out, and now that team Republic has succeeded, we all do victory dances and buy our fearless CEO drinks every night. We NEEDED MEH, because there was no other way to break into the stand alone market. It's not like you can just go and buy an airline like Frontier, and instantly get 60 Airbuses. No, we needed MEH becuase that was the ONLY way we would ever get 190's. And without 190's, how would we ever be able to debase JetBlue's pay. Bedford has told us that the 190 is more than just an airplane... it is the ONLY way we could ever successfully destroy the industry. It is an instrument of God! He even showed us the "wrath of god" decals he plans to place on every 190 beginning in 2010. Maybe it is just me, but this constant dribble about everyone being out to get the MEH pilots sounds just a little far fetched and ego-centric. I know that there are a bunch of stand up, level headed guys at Midwest who can see the situation for what it is, but unfortunately none of them post on this site. RAH is recalling. As long as there are RAH pilots to recall, only they will be recalled to the RAH certificates. When the SLI is complete, the Midwest pilots will be put into aircraft as their seniority dictates. If the company won't send those guys to class, then please sue the heck out of the company. When you are entitled to something, go get it. For now, only a spot on the RAH seniority list entitles you to a seat in a RAH cockpit. Right or wrong, it doesn't matter. Ethics have been absent from law for years. What is written on paper is gospel, and for now the courts are preaching out of the book of RAH CBA. Midwest paint means nothing to the FAA, since the planes are on the RAH certificate. Apparently the courts don't think much of it either. Again, that is law, not our personal ethics at play. If my ethics mattered, there would be a whole slew of dead child molesters being taken away from the public gallows right now. If seniority was really so important, date of hire would be present in all mergers past. Good luck finding it. I am really not a hard a$$, or a jerk. I am just getting real tired of this 'everyone is out to get us, no one cares about us' banter. Yes, it is a raw deal, and working for RAH will not be nearly as good as working for MEH. But Capitalism has many casualties, and the loss of your business is just one of thousands in the past few years. I feel bad for every person who has lost a job. I feel bad for the MEH pilots. But I don't feel any special sympathy for you. I have too many unemployed and underemployed family members to think that your case is special. I feel no guilt, because I have seen the life cycle of business on a personal level three times in my life, and I know exactly what I can control, and what is well beyond my sphere of influence. I know how hard this is on your families. I have been one of those families. Years later, I still am trying to help my parents through the consequences of capitalism and innovation in business. Life isn't pretty, and there aren't many 30 year careers left in this country. I honestly can't name a single person I know who has held employment for the same company for 30 years. Layoffs, closings, mergers...it catches up with us all at some point. Sorry it had to be you guys now.
Originally Posted by DLAJ77
(Post 720375)
continuing justification...
this site is really just useless banter, but it does display how fragmented and broken this profession is. if management could see this they must laugh and give each other high fives for a job well done, this is exactly how they want it. until then you just stay on your pedestal looking down at the regional guys who grind it out every day hoping for a something better. remember when? :confused: |
Originally Posted by Husker402
(Post 719068)
Does anyone have an idea of what their minumums will be once they begin hiring?
Originally Posted by iPilot
(Post 719069)
The question is what are your personal minimums as far as work conditions and pay?
Are you willing to work for a company that is the only one in this economic downturn that is doing anything to improve its position? Are you willing to work for a company that is willing to think outside the box and make business decisions that are for the greater good of many while an unfortunate devastation to few? The mins are most likely going to be dictated by politicians who know nothing about flying airplanes. The mins will also be dictated by the number of "qualified 121 applicants". The portion of people you see posting here is so small. Most in the industry don't read this banter and even more barely know it exists. People will apply banking on the stability of the company and the potential of a good contract in the future. |
Originally Posted by duvie
(Post 718696)
Bud, I'm not here to start a flamefest, and you shouldn't be either. Your company (not you or the pilot group personally) literally put an entire airline full of pilots out of a job, many of which who had 25+ years there and you're stoked because you might be hiring? :( You have to understand that this doesn't sit well with people. I understand you weren't rooting for MidWest's demise but a little sensitivity would go a long way from many of the Republic pilots.
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Originally Posted by dosbo
(Post 719546)
As long as BB can keep multiple livery's, supplies feed to mainline, and maintains subpar payscales he will be the CEO of a regional. Midwest has been transformed to a regional during this process (the brand is now worthless), I hope the same does not happen to Frontier. If BB wants to run a major airline he needs to pick a name, paint the planes the same color and get on with business. My opinion is he is quite happy orchestrating the chaos between pilot groups and reaping the benefits.
JO would be proud. How long do you think it will be before the mainline carriers decide to stop feeding their now direct competition.... Delta tried to dump Mesa/Freedom and was told by a judge that there had been no substantial change in their business relationship to warrant a sanctioned breech/termination of their contract.... since BB aquired these large plane operators, RAH has now become direct competition, and not just a subcontractor feed provider. You may expect that once RAH has aquired the new equipment, several of the mainline companies will sue for contract termination on the basis of change of business relationship... RAH defaults, and everybody splits up the chunks of it they want. Meanwhile, BB rapes the place for all he can, and then sells it off like he did with BizEx to AMR. |
Originally Posted by STILL GROUNDED
(Post 720822)
Are you willing to work for a company that is the only one in this economic downturn that is doing anything to improve its position? Are you willing to work for a company that is willing to think outside the box and make business decisions that are for the greater good of many while an unfortunate devastation to few?.
You've been drinking the RAH coolaid way too long if you think those statements are accurate. |
Originally Posted by Mason32
(Post 721044)
How long do you think it will be before the mainline carriers decide to stop feeding their now direct competition....
Delta tried to dump Mesa/Freedom and was told by a judge that there had been no substantial change in their business relationship to warrant a sanctioned breech/termination of their contract.... since BB aquired these large plane operators, RAH has now become direct competition, and not just a subcontractor feed provider. You may expect that once RAH has aquired the new equipment, several of the mainline companies will sue for contract termination on the basis of change of business relationship... RAH defaults, and everybody splits up the chunks of it they want. Meanwhile, BB rapes the place for all he can, and then sells it off like he did with BizEx to AMR. There has been fierce competition for MKE this year, and SW and AT have made big pushes for market share. Yet the legacy airlines, the ones that contract with RAH, have remained outside of the fray. I think there is more support for RAH among the majors than you think, even if they are just using BB as a leech to suck a little blood/cash from the LCC's. |
Originally Posted by STILL GROUNDED
(Post 720822)
What he is... saying are you willing to work under a post 9/11 contract that was negotiated under the guidance of a corrupt attorney with the largest aircraft on property being a 50 seat regional jet at a company which was mostly transitional and had an average upgrade time for fo's of about 16 months?
Are you willing to work for a company that is the only one in this economic downturn that is doing anything to improve its position? Are you willing to work for a company that is willing to think outside the box and make business decisions that are for the greater good of many while an unfortunate devastation to few? The mins are most likely going to be dictated by politicians who know nothing about flying airplanes. The mins will also be dictated by the number of "qualified 121 applicants". The portion of people you see posting here is so small. Most in the industry don't read this banter and even more barely know it exists. People will apply banking on the stability of the company and the potential of a good contract in the future. Republic, and the guys and gals who work there, seem to take a lot of heat on this board for their current contract. I know nothing of the contract specifics, but I have compared hourly rates from this web site. It seems to me that their pay rates, with the exception of jetBlue, are about what ALPA has negotiatied elsewhere. Republic F.O. starts at 23, peaks in 4 yrs at 37. Republic Captain 170 is 59 1st yr and peaks at 108 yr 20. E-190 rates are 64 to 119/hr. Compass Capt rates start at 61 and peak at 101 yr 18. USAir rates are 41 to 52/hr for Fo(significantly better than Compass or Republic) but their Captain rates are 79 with a peak at yr 12 of 95/hr. Also, many of the large jet charter/freight operators don't pay much, if any, better than Republic with the exception of 1st yr FO rates. Take these numbers for what they're worth, but maybe some posters should lighten up a bit as to the rates. They are not really all that different than the rates at comparable airlines/equipt. |
Originally Posted by MaxQ
(Post 721072)
I will add some info that may or may not be relevant, but here goes.
Republic, and the guys and gals who work there, seem to take a lot of heat on this board for their current contract. I know nothing of the contract specifics, but I have compared hourly rates from this web site. It seems to me that their pay rates, with the exception of jetBlue, are about what ALPA has negotiatied elsewhere. Republic F.O. starts at 23, peaks in 4 yrs at 37. Republic Captain 170 is 59 1st yr and peaks at 108 yr 20. E-190 rates are 64 to 119/hr. Compass Capt rates start at 61 and peak at 101 yr 18. USAir rates are 41 to 52/hr for Fo(significantly better than Compass or Republic) but their Captain rates are 79 with a peak at yr 12 of 95/hr. Also, many of the large jet charter/freight operators don't pay much, if any, better than Republic with the exception of 1st yr FO rates. Take these numbers for what they're worth, but maybe some posters should lighten up a bit as to the rates. They are not really all that different than the rates at comparable airlines/equipt. |
Originally Posted by Dougdrvr
(Post 721174)
I would think that you have been in this business long enough to know that there is SO much more to a good contract than rates. I agree with your analysis about comparitive rates but the RAH FO scale is a travesty! There is no reason it shouldn't be 60% of the CAPT rates all the way up the scale. Only a fool would think that the expeditious upgrades would continue.
....... +1 |
staple the RAH guys...then everyone on the forum will be happy. btw, how many planes did MEH bring to the mix?
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Originally Posted by mwa1
(Post 721200)
staple the RAH guys...then everyone on the forum will be happy. btw, how many planes did MEH bring to the mix?
How many people actually buy a ticket on Republic Airlines? Is it even possible to buy a ticket on a plane painted in Republic colors? I didn't think so. |
Originally Posted by dosbo
(Post 721208)
MEH brought a brand to the mix.
How many people actually buy a ticket on Republic Airlines? Is it even possible to buy a ticket on a plane painted in Republic colors? I didn't think so. How many people TODAY 12/4/09 would be able to buy a ticket on the brand name Midwest? NONE. |
Originally Posted by pilot124
(Post 721248)
Lets just say for a minute that RAH didn't enter the picture.
How many people TODAY 12/4/09 would be able to buy a ticket on the brand name Midwest? NONE. Give me some facts... The total costs to restructure and recapitalise Midwest are likely to reach $35 million. From an operating perspective Midwest is currently profitable, says Bedford. But Republic has advised the market that Midwest is likely to "go back into a loss-making situation for the fall and probably January and February, although we don't think it is significantly loss making". Once Midwest finalises its restructuring in early 2010 Bedford predicts: "We're going to be profitable, strongly profitable, in the second quarter of next year and we'll continue to be profitable thereafter." |
Originally Posted by Dougdrvr
(Post 721174)
I would think that you have been in this business long enough to know that there is SO much more to a good contract than rates. I agree with your analysis about comparitive rates but the RAH FO scale is a travesty! There is no reason it shouldn't be 60% of the CAPT rates all the way up the scale. Only a fool would think that the expeditious upgrades would continue.
You are correct, there is far more to a contract than pay, but for the moment I only have pay scales to compare. I also suspect that if contracts were compared to other regionals, you would find them similar. I agree that F.O. rates are a travesty. My point of the post was that so is almost every other similar airline. (take a look at F.O. rates at Pinnicle for example) I don't think Republic deserves the special bashing they seem to get for theirs. As to improving it, well, everyone needs to be careful. It was only a few years back that the new Comair contract was being toted as a triumph. Since then Comair has been shrinking and is even rumored to be possibly axed by Delta and its flying given to cheaper carriers. Air Wisconsin has one of the better contracts, but they were dumped by UAL and only a "pay to fly" deal with cash strapped USAir kept them going. So, what can we do about all this? In the short term, nothing. Either commit idealistic suicide or take what the current system allows. However, in the long term, we have a tool that I think would work.(there may be others, I can't believe I'm the only one who has ideas about this paradox). That tool is National Seniority list. This would give the pilots as a whole some leverage. Close airline A down, then those guys and gals get to go to the newly expanding airline B. Problems with it? I am sure. But it would give us some protection. The next part of the deal is get 1 or 2 day strikes allowed as they are in Europe. The current system is an all or nothing affair that makes the employees liable to be replaced, or the possible total collapse of the airline itself if the strike lasts more than a short period. This would involve a massive commitment of legislative/regulatory change by all interested unions. The natl seniorty list will be resisted by entrenched powers. I think this is short sighted. Personal prediction: probably after I am retired, but in my lifetime, there will be no pilots employed by a specific carrier. Pilots will all be working for contract providers(such as many Asian airlines currently do) and their contracts will be subject to transfer and willy-nilly cancelation by airline XYZ. A national list could either stop such events, or at least dictate who goes to what contract. Am I right about this prediction? I hope not, but the current "haves" should think about it before dismissing a national list out of hand. Ok, enough for now. All responders feel free to "cry havoc". |
Originally Posted by pilot124
(Post 721248)
Lets just say for a minute that RAH didn't enter the picture.
How many people TODAY 12/4/09 would be able to buy a ticket on the brand name Midwest? NONE. |
Originally Posted by STILL GROUNDED
(Post 720822)
Are you willing to work for a company that is the only one in this economic downturn that is doing anything to improve its position? Are you willing to work for a company that is willing to think outside the box and make business decisions that are for the greater good of many while an unfortunate devastation to few?
Puffery consists of praise so exaggerated, subjective or claims so unsubstantiated that a person should know better than to take it seriously. |
Originally Posted by SUX4U
(Post 720401)
How very insightful sir! Care to add more to conversation? We simply need more of your indeepth analysis to keep this tread on topic! :rolleyes:
I thought Ballast's post was well thought out, compared to 99% of the other post that are nothing but knee jerk, emotionally fueled nonsense. As he said, until that SLI is completed, Midwest guys need to be patient and know they atleast have an option to keep flying. For any Midwest guys, I dont believe I have heard how well your union is communicating with the group regarding the integration. I am curious to know what ALPA has to tell you guys at this point in the dicussions. Process Using November 3, 2009 Effective Date DATE SECTION DESCRIPTION November 13, 2009 §IV(a) Each committee to submit list of 3 acceptable arbitrators /mediators; RAH to submit list of 3 acceptable arbitrators November 18, 2009 §IV(b) Conference to select arbitrator/mediator November 24, 2009 §I(a) Last date for committees to request information from RAH December 3, 2009 §I(a) RAH to produce information requested 11/24 December 13, 2009 §II(a) Exchange of verified seniority lists and CBAs December 18, 2009 §II(b) Exchange of integration proposals December 28, 2009 §II(c) Beginning of conferences re integration January 12, 2010 §III(a) Any committee may request mediation February 11, 2010 §II(f) Any party may invoke arbitration February 19, 2010 §V(a) Pre-hearing conference March 12, 2010 §V(b) Hearing begins May 11, 2010 §V(d) Proposed award May 31, 2010 §V(e) Final award I spoke to a furloughed RAH pilot the other day and he knew nothing of this agreed to timetable. Despite his impending recall. He complained about the lack of info from IBT,but I was surprised to find out he was so uninformed. MEH council 30 keeps us updated weekly via e-mail and on the ALPA site. |
If he were to take the time to go to the IBT site he would find all this information posted on the front page.
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Originally Posted by YXnot
(Post 721560)
Timeline for Section 13(b) Alternative Dispute Resolution
Process Using November 3, 2009 Effective Date DATE SECTION DESCRIPTION November 13, 2009 §IV(a) Each committee to submit list of 3 acceptable arbitrators /mediators; RAH to submit list of 3 acceptable arbitrators November 18, 2009 §IV(b) Conference to select arbitrator/mediator November 24, 2009 §I(a) Last date for committees to request information from RAH December 3, 2009 §I(a) RAH to produce information requested 11/24 December 13, 2009 §II(a) Exchange of verified seniority lists and CBAs December 18, 2009 §II(b) Exchange of integration proposals December 28, 2009 §II(c) Beginning of conferences re integration January 12, 2010 §III(a) Any committee may request mediation February 11, 2010 §II(f) Any party may invoke arbitration February 19, 2010 §V(a) Pre-hearing conference March 12, 2010 §V(b) Hearing begins May 11, 2010 §V(d) Proposed award May 31, 2010 §V(e) Final award I spoke to a furloughed RAH pilot the other day and he knew nothing of this agreed to timetable. Despite his impending recall. He complained about the lack of info from IBT,but I was surprised to find out he was so uninformed. MEH council 30 keeps us updated weekly via e-mail and on the ALPA site. Republic EXCO will fill all the jobs with furloughed Republic pilots and new hires to help Rev BB cost labor costs. I just hope the arbitrator sees though the actions of the Teamster Union and Rev BB to bypass the Midwest Pilots labor contract. "All commercial flight operations (whether revenue, non-revenue, scheduled or non-scheduled) conducted by the Company will be flown by pilots whose names appear on the Midwest Airlines, Inc., Pilot System Seniority List." |
Originally Posted by YXnot
(Post 721560)
I spoke to a furloughed RAH pilot the other day and he knew nothing of this agreed to timetable. Despite his impending recall. He complained about the lack of info from IBT,but I was surprised to find out he was so uninformed.
MEH council 30 keeps us updated weekly via e-mail and on the ALPA site. |
Originally Posted by SUX4U
(Post 718848)
but stop crucifying the RAH guys... they agian have no say in this.
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Originally Posted by flyrr100
(Post 721835)
Thank you.
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Originally Posted by jetGlue
(Post 721848)
There is blood on the RAH pilots hands. Unwillingness and inability to get a decent working agreement contributes to this travesty.
You should be ashamed of yourself for saying of all people that the PILOTS of RAH have blood on their hands! If that is your logic, than Southwest pilots also have blood on their hands when ATA fell and their pilots got sent packing right? Or how about the laid off AWA guys senior to actively flying new hire's at Airways... do those Airways guys have blood on their hands as well? No, they dont! When airlines are merged/acquired their will be blood... but on the managements and or unions hands, not the pawns. I hope you never have to experience a merge, believe me... its not the most pleasant thing for any group involved. But if you do, maybe you will understand how out of touch your perspective is. |
Originally Posted by jetGlue
(Post 721848)
and inability to get a decent working agreement contributes to this travesty.
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Originally Posted by MD80
(Post 721584)
Republic EXCO will fill all the jobs with furloughed Republic pilots and new hires to help Rev BB cost labor costs.
I just hope the arbitrator sees though the actions of the Teamster Union and Rev BB to bypass the Midwest Pilots labor contract. "All commercial flight operations (whether revenue, non-revenue, scheduled or non-scheduled) conducted by the Company will be flown by pilots whose names appear on the Midwest Airlines, Inc., Pilot System Seniority List." but since YX Inc. doesn't exist anymore, this is N/A.... |
Originally Posted by YXnot
(Post 721560)
Timeline for Section 13(b) Alternative Dispute Resolution
Process Using November 3, 2009 Effective Date DATE SECTION DESCRIPTION November 13, 2009 §IV(a) Each committee to submit list of 3 acceptable arbitrators /mediators; RAH to submit list of 3 acceptable arbitrators November 18, 2009 §IV(b) Conference to select arbitrator/mediator November 24, 2009 §I(a) Last date for committees to request information from RAH December 3, 2009 §I(a) RAH to produce information requested 11/24 December 13, 2009 §II(a) Exchange of verified seniority lists and CBAs December 18, 2009 §II(b) Exchange of integration proposals December 28, 2009 §II(c) Beginning of conferences re integration January 12, 2010 §III(a) Any committee may request mediation February 11, 2010 §II(f) Any party may invoke arbitration February 19, 2010 §V(a) Pre-hearing conference March 12, 2010 §V(b) Hearing begins May 11, 2010 §V(d) Proposed award May 31, 2010 §V(e) Final award I spoke to a furloughed RAH pilot the other day and he knew nothing of this agreed to timetable. Despite his impending recall. He complained about the lack of info from IBT,but I was surprised to find out he was so uninformed. MEH council 30 keeps us updated weekly via e-mail and on the ALPA site. |
Originally Posted by SUX4U
(Post 721908)
How long has this "travesty" been going on for... 4 months at the most?!? Again, why do some guys seems to think this integration should happen over night? As YXnot posted a timetable of the integration that alone proves ALL groups are willing and actively working to solve this crap situation for all groups Midwesst guys especially.
You should be ashamed of yourself for saying of all people that the PILOTS of RAH have blood on their hands! If that is your logic, than Southwest pilots also have blood on their hands when ATA fell and their pilots got sent packing right? Or how about the laid off AWA guys senior to actively flying new hire's at Airways... do those Airways guys have blood on their hands as well? No, they dont! When airlines are merged/acquired their will be blood... but on the managements and or unions hands, not the pawns. I hope you never have to experience a merge, believe me... its not the most pleasant thing for any group involved. But if you do, maybe you will understand how out of touch your perspective is. Why would a integration take 9-10 months? Because Republic pilots want all the jobs at Midwest. Delta/NWA integration took less time. SWA wanted to make a integration deal with Frontier in two days... too fast I agree. It's pretty simply, you have to discuss lets say 6 ways to integrate a seniority list. If you can't agree then it goes to arbitration, period. No more than 4 months is needed... 1 month of talks followed by 3 months for arbitration. |
Originally Posted by jetGlue
(Post 721848)
There is blood on the RAH pilots hands. Unwillingness and inability to get a decent working agreement contributes to this travesty.
.........+1 |
So should we have let YX go out of business? Their management and sorry union did that to them. Maybe if we just watched them go out of business without our help they wouldn't be crying soo much. If you don't like the circumstances then do us all favors and don't come over! We helped YX remember, they brought nothing to the table!
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Originally Posted by COPILOT
(Post 722036)
So should we have let X go out of business? Their management and sorry union did that to them. Maybe if we just watched them go out of business without our help they wouldn't be crying soo much. If you don't like the circumstances then do us all favors and don't come over! We helped YX remember, they brought nothing to the table!
Hang tough original Midwest! |
Originally Posted by GAPILOT36
(Post 722036)
So should we have let YX go out of business? Their management and sorry union did that to them. Maybe if we just watched them go out of business without our help they wouldn't be crying soo much. If you don't like the circumstances then do us all favors and don't come over! We helped YX remember, they brought nothing to the table!
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Originally Posted by GAPILOT36
(Post 722036)
So should we have let YX go out of business? Their management and sorry union did that to them. Maybe if we just watched them go out of business without our help they wouldn't be crying soo much. If you don't like the circumstances then do us all favors and don't come over! We helped YX remember, they brought nothing to the table!
Funny girl. Republic helped themself to all the jobs and took the reservation system, market department, internet site, gates, slots, maintenance hangers, loyal customer base, ... I would have loved for Republic to start their own airline like Independence Air. Midwest would still be in business with Midwest employees. From Rev BB... From an operating perspective Midwest is currently profitable, says Bedford. But Republic has advised the market that Midwest is likely to "go back into a loss-making situation for the fall and probably January and February, although we don't think it is significantly loss making". Once Midwest finalises its restructuring in early 2010 Bedford predicts: "We're going to be profitable, strongly profitable, in the second quarter of next year and we'll continue to be profitable thereafter." If AirTran wanted Midwest at $400 with B717 and MD80s, do you thing they would have paid $32 for Midwest with only 25-B717? Republic and Midwest merged for the benefit of Republic, TPG and NWA/Delta. |
Originally Posted by sizzlechest
(Post 721953)
it's not like they have anything else to do....
I hope beyond all hope that you do not work for Republic because none of the professional pilots who worked for MEH would ever deserve to have to share an office with the likes of you! These guys and gals are all very busy trying to figure out what they will do next, how they will continue to pay their bills, fund their retirement, pay for the kids college, afford cobra to ensure continued medical coverage, apply for jobs, file for unemployment, go back to school etc. etc. Then you have the guys who are continuing to wage this fight for their careers who have to do all of the above and complete all of the time consuming work that this requires. And you come up with the above statement. Your level of immaturity and insensitivity is colossal. |
Originally Posted by YXnot
(Post 722160)
After reviewing your body of work I guess I should not be surprised by this feeble attempt at ............humor???
I hope beyond all hope that you do not work for Republic because none of the professional pilots who worked for MEH would ever deserve to have to share an office with the likes of you! These guys and gals are all very busy trying to figure out what they will do next, how they will continue to pay their bills, fund their retirement, pay for the kids college, afford cobra to ensure continued medical coverage, apply for jobs, file for unemployment, go back to school etc. etc. Then you have the guys who are continuing to wage this fight for their careers who have to do all of the above and complete all of the time consuming work that this requires. And you come up with the above statement. Your level of immaturity and insensitivity is colossal. ........ +1 |
Originally Posted by GAPILOT36
(Post 722036)
So should we have let YX go out of business? Their management and sorry union did that to them. Maybe if we just watched them go out of business without our help they wouldn't be crying soo much. If you don't like the circumstances then do us all favors and don't come over! We helped YX remember, they brought nothing to the table!
And speaking of sorry unions, you shouldn't throw stones in your glass house. And just exactly what have YOU or the RAH pilot group done for YX pilots? Since you've brought everything to the table, and they've brought nothing. RAH didn't gain the name, the reservation system, the route structure, the customer base, or the great airline built on the backs of the YX pilots who are now on the street. Yeah, I guess Midwest brought nothing. :rolleyes: |
Originally Posted by GAPILOT36
(Post 722036)
So should we have let YX go out of business? Their management and sorry union did that to them. Maybe if we just watched them go out of business without our help they wouldn't be crying soo much. If you don't like the circumstances then do us all favors and don't come over! We helped YX remember, they brought nothing to the table!
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<----------That is my stance on the matter. I am furloughed and I will bypass because this needs to happen before I will return the RAH.
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Originally Posted by MD80
(Post 722002)
Why would a integration take 9-10 months? Because Republic pilots want all the jobs at Midwest.
Delta/NWA integration took less time. SWA wanted to make a integration deal with Frontier in two days... too fast I agree. It's pretty simply, you have to discuss lets say 6 ways to integrate a seniority list. If you can't agree then it goes to arbitration, period. No more than 4 months is needed... 1 month of talks followed by 3 months for arbitration. In a ideal world, I agree with you that it SHOULD take no more than 4 months to hammer out a seniority integration. But I am thinking this situation was set up for a long miserable road from the get go. Hell, Cactus v Airways is at 2 years plus of seniority wars and its at an absolute stand still. I really hope for your sake, that your integration does not go down this path, but would you be surprised if it did? After looking at the agreed to time line, it is disappointing to see ALPA/FAPA not push for a more time sensitive process. I personally think the time line is far too drawn out with you guys on the street. I truly hope that by the time the integration is finalized, those that have the chance and are willing to move on to better, stronger carriers will be long gone and happy all while this crap situation is FAR behind you! |
Flamebait. Thread closed.
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