ryane946

I recently got the last seat on a 50 seat CRJ going into foggy Eugene. I counted 47 aboard (3 empty seats). The reason the flight did not go out full was a weight restriction. I was surprised. The last time I had heard of a weight restriction was on a DC-10 in the 1990's. How could a modern jet have a weight restriction causing the airline to bump passengers?
Some possible reasons that I will note.
Runway length - Nope. SF has an 11,000ft runway and EUG has an 8,000ft runway.
Density altitude - No way. Both airports at sealevel, and temperatures of about 60 degrees.
Fuel on board - Possibly. It was so foggy in Eugene that we almost diverted to Portland. Maybe they carried a full load of fuel for a diversion.
Even with full fuel, shouldn't a CRJ be able to handle full passengers?

I talked with some Skywest employees that were telling me they have weight restrictions all the time on the Brasilia. This seems a little more logical, but still somewhat shocking.

For any CRJ or EMB-120 pilots, how often do you guys have weight restrictions? How long do those flights have to be to make you restricted? How many passengers do you typically bump? Is this a problem with the CRJ-700?
Thanks

Baburang

The CRJ200 usually gets restricted on flights over 1.5hrs when there is some bad weather involved...The CRJ700 usually doesnt get weight restricted, exept in ASE/JAC and on flights over 3 hours!!!! The EMB-120 on the other hand gets weight restricted all the time, even on 1/2 hour flights...especially flights in and out of DEN/SLC....when its 100 degrees in DEN dont expect more than 16 people on that 30 seat brasilia, the lowest I have ever seen on a brasilia is 9 people with 300lb of cargo...weight restricted!!!!!

Dont be surprised, I am surprised you havent ran into this problem earlier!!!!

freezingflyboy

I dont think the age of the aircraft has anything to do with weight restrictions. I know CAL has to weight restrict on flights from EWR to DEL, HKG, etc and thats on brand new 777s!
There may have been a number of reasons why there were empty seats:
-the flight checked in full but people missed their connections at SFO. When you check in for your flight PodunkA-Hub-PodunkB you get checked in on both flights. Now if your flight from PodunkA gets delayed and you misconnect at the hub the computer still has you checked in Hub-PodunkB. This happens a lot at hubs (such as SFO) and gives the gate agents the impression a flight is full. I usually don't put much faith in that estimate because there have been more times than I can count where either I was jumpseating or had a jumpseater who was told "the flight checked in full, you'll probably have to ride in the cockpit" and then when its time to close the door "oh hey guys, looks like I've got a seat in back".
-there may have been some "must-ride" bags or freight that the company deemed it more valuable to move that then passengers who could take a later flight.
-passengers may have been traded for fuel on a flight where delays/weather were an issue. Easier to inconvenience 3 people than 50, right? If the fog was widespread (as it tends to be on the pacific coast) it may have been a long way to an alternate airport with suitable weather which requires extra fuel to keep things legal (and safe).

So on and so forth. Just remember, with the airlines things are not always as they seem

ryane946

I was a stand-by with a lot of seniority. I know there were other stand-by's who were unable to get on. They definately got bumped because of a weight restriction. I have gotten on planes that were booked like 20/24 in first 178/158 in coach. I usually plan about 5-10% no-show factor. Higher for 6AM flights. I have almost mastered the art of flying stand-by, even with 90% loadfactors and busy travel seasons. But when a weight restriction gets thrown in the mix, I can get screwed.
Anyway, thanks for the responses.

FlyboyPhil

I know that we are often weight restricted out of ORD on the shorter flights that require an alternate due to the Max landing weight of the CRJ. MTOW is 53000 lbs, MLW is 47000 lbs.. so on a short flight to make your landing weight your takeoff weight will be 47000 plus the burn for the flight. Sometimes just over 1000lbs. Say the burn is 1500, flight plan takeoff weight is then 48.5k then you have to have about 2000 lbs fuel for reserves and with an alternate at least another 1500 or so plus contingency fuel. now your looking at a max zero fuel weight in the 42-43k range. 43-43k minus the empty weight on the rjs (usually in the low 30s) gives ~11000 lbs payload minus 9750 for the pax (50*195) leaves 1250 for bags.... except that 50 pax usually means bags are around 2000.. so.. to take all the bags that go with the people you are looking at leaving 3-4 people behind.
Long answer short...

surreal1221

Flying non-rev (89-DAL) out of CAE into ATL on ASA at 6am I have been bumped off. . . 3 times, due to a weight restriction. Each time I ask about it. Each time I get the answer "Well the flight isn't full . . . we have 4 empty seats, but luggage and fuel won't allow us any more." My jaw drops every time. I never understand it.

Makes sense now, thanks guys.

rickair7777

All transport category airplanes are designed to be very flexible for the operator, that is to say they can decide how to best allocate the available weight. Few if any can take max pax, max cargo, AND max fuel.

Optimal CRJ 200 leg is 1 - 2 hours. Less than that you will be limited by fuel burn down to max landing weight, more than that and you will be limited by the need to carry more fuel.

Wx and alternate requirements can load up the fuel too in some cases.

High and hot is not usually a problem at most commercial airports unless combined with a short runway...TUS likes to close either 11 or 29 at 2100. If you're running late, you might have return to the gate and unload 25 pax so you can use the little x-wind runway The best way to perform that evolution is leave the cockpit door locked and let the gate folks deal with it

Tinpusher007

I used to work the ramp in DAB for ASA and Comair CRJ's and saw this very situation all the time on flights going to ATL (less than 1 hour flying time from DAB). From my perspective, and yours Im sure CRJ100/200's are notorious for being weight restricted, especially in the summer.

JerrySpringer

ERJ is also a LDG Wt restriction on short flights when alternate is needed...and of course long haul with alternates due to fuel....

E170 doesn't seem to be too bad. I usually bump on to ZFW (72+about 90 bags) first.

Punkpilot48

Yeah Ive seen people kicked off the plane I was flying twice (ord-sbn, mke-ord) Because the ramp overfueled us.

I don't know about the CRJ but in the 145 you almost always have a balance problem. "Two to the back"