I put those phrases in quotes to indicate sarcasm, but apparently that was lost on you. Are quotation marks hard to see when you are looking down your nose at fellow pilots?

I do not need to rationalize my decision. I had a blast and would make the same decision again.

Thank you, my Friend.

Things suck when airlines are shrinking. To be fair, there is no such thing as "top-of-the-industry pay rates" at any regional airline. The top pay rates are at the majors.

I reject the doo-wop heard constantly here that all blame for the state of our industry lies with certain pilot groups at so-called "bottom-feeders." An RAH guy once referred to myself and my sisters and brothers by that epithet. I am damned if some guy feasting on the rotting carcass of someone's Midwest Airlines career is calling me a "bottom-feeder" without a fight.

Some on this forum seem to feel very good about themselves because they work at a "good regional". They will bloviate about how pilots at other companies are "lowering the bar". I wonder if any of them would care to explain to me how the bar is raised by jobs leaving UAL and going to Skywest? From COA to BNA? From Midwest Airlines to RAH? From AAL to EGE?

"If all pilots refused to fly for the 'bottom-feeders' everything would be grand." This is a silly notion. Pilots will go where there is work, especially in this economy. If pilots at "good regionals" refused to fly jets and refused to perform the work formally done by major pilots, the bar would shoot to the moon. Neither of these scenarios will ever occur.

Proud of your job at a "career regional?" Swallow your pride and reflect on the fact that you perform work for less time off and 1/4 the pay in real dollars as the major pilots you have slowly replaced.

One of the main reasons that we are in this position is our lack of cohesiveness and the avalanche of market forces. Pilots have done a horrendous job of working together. Instead of bickering over the largest table scrap, we should all be in the same union working to expand flying at the majors, even if it means they fly regional jets and turboprops.

The Dash Whisperer

 

I'm a CFI and I see guys every day saying they can't wait to go to airlines like colgan, because you upgrade quickly and get turboprop time. With that type of mentality, they'll never fly anything bigger than a turboprop.

Me? I'd rather wait a bit more and build by experience then go to a "less bad" regional. I wonder why they fail to wonder "hmmm (bad regional) requires a CMEL, (less bad) regional requires 1000TT...I wonder why"

 

Hey Mr. CFI...
First get your facts straight... Colgan requires more than just a CMEL in fact right now competitive mins are 1500TT and 300ME. Whats wrong with flying a turboprop? Have you flown one or better yet do you have turbojet time to compare with? Just because people fly turboprops it doesn't keep them from moving on to bigger and better things.... I have friends who are in the corporate world flying GIV's and GV's after driving a B1900. Lets see... there are plenty of former Colgan pilots at World, Airtran, Spirit, Continental, and even a few at Southwest. Can you explain to me how they seemed to move along if they had your above stated mentality?
Just remember that Colgan still flies regional aircraft on regional routes.... the same cannot be said for companies like Compass, Republic, Skywest, Expressjet, and Comair to name a few.... sure they are great companies to work for but they don't have what I want in a company.
I enjoy knowing the people I work with on a first name basis. I enjoy being in my own bed every night. I enjoy living where I live and not having to worry about commuting.
Now that I have submitted my rebuttal I dare you to try and justify you original post.

 

First get your facts straight... Colgan requires more than just a CMEL in fact right now competitive mins are 1500TT and 300ME.

Firstly, my post never said Colgan requires a CMEL. I was making reference to the 2007 hiring boom, I thought it was obvious that nobody would hire a wet CMEL in January 2010- perhaps I should have been clearer.

Whats wrong with flying a turboprop?

Nothing’s wrong with spending your career in a turboprop (I was making this point to a student just yesterday), but most hope to fly a Boeing product at retirement.

Just because people fly turboprops it doesn't keep them from moving on to bigger and better things

Correct, but my point was agreeing with mooney, who said If I'm killing to fly the outsourced turboprop for poverty level wages, then there will be no mainline job at the end of my regional career.

Lastly, I’m not attacking Colgan pilots. I’m sure there are good folks there, just like anywhere else. People have their own reasons for flying for whatever company they pick. However, some people seem hung up about flying a bigger airplane...SJS. The size of the airplane is important, but not as important as the size of my paycheck. What good is it saying I fly a (Q400, CRJ, A320, 777) if the company isn’t paying me enough to support myself?

 

Do SkyWest pilots have a right to complain about the anal dilation their company is assisting them with via changes in health insurance?

The above CA is doing his/her share to keep overall wages down by allowing more flying to be outsourced to the regionals.

Most of the "good regionals" have furloughed as well.

Everyone weighs their choices differently. My goals do not include a long stretch in the right seat, so I factored that in. I am assuming that you have not yet flown for an airline and I chuckle at the confidence with which you seem to have figured out the industry. This industry cycles rapidly. It is one thing to assert that you will not go to a lesser regional when everyone is hiring. If only the lesser ones are hiring, how long will you wait? Will you make a career in a different segment of aviation? When the time comes, I hope you have many choices.

As another poster mentioned, plenty of t-prop pilots go on to majors without having to fly a microjet.


If you camp in the regionals flying regional jets, you are helping to move flying away from the majors and there will be no mainline job at the end of your career.

Pay is important. My advice; Stay lean, stay hungry. Do not get so cozy on $50,000/year at a regional that you won't jump to $34,000 for the first year at COA.

 

I think that a pilot would actually serve himself/herself better to find a Turboprop job before flying a jet. There are a couple of reasons for this.

First, in most cases you can expect more cycles with a turboprop, which is the experience you really need on the front end of your career.

Second, it opens up another avenue for potential employment in the future. If you, like me, love to fly and would like to continue to do it until you can't pass your medical, a tprop part 135 or part 91 could be open to you after retirement from your airline career.

Third, turboprops are pretty cool! Of course, I may just be an airplane ***** as I will fly almost anything with wings, but the list of airplanes I would like type ratings in include a B1900, S340B, EMB120, and a King Air 350. Why? I don't really know. Wierd, maybe, but I think all of those aircraft are incredibly cool for different reasons. I would also like a type rating in a DC-3 because I think it is one of the most incredible aircraft ever made!

Although I would like to retire from a place with a 717 and/or 737 type (can you guess where?) TODAY I would prefer to fly turboprops over RJ's given the opportunity. (That could change tomorrow!)

 

If you want to get a type rating on Saab 340s, you better hurry. Mesaba is losing all their Saabs by 2011 or 2012, and Colgan will be the only ones flying Saabs.

I do agree with you turboprops are a blast to fly if you like to fly. All King Airs are fun to fly. A really well harmonized controls. There is an out fit out in CA where you can get a DC3 type rating. I have never flown one but I am told DC3s are great fun to fly, 1940s steam guages, tail dragger and all.

 

Hey Skip, you seem pretty confident about how to pick a regional even though you have never even worked for one.

A regional is a regional. No matter what, if you are at the bottom of the list, you are going to get crapped on. If you chase money, I will tell you right now, it is not worth it. Find one where you like a junior domicile, get hired and live in base. Commuting sucks no matter how you slice it. QOL is so much more important than the money.

If you make an extra 5k at a "better regional" but you are constantly paying for crashpads and airport food that you would not have to at a "crappy regional", then it is a wash. Majors do not care about which regional you come from so do not try to pull that one.

Get hired where you want to live and live in base. My favorite it people who got hired by an airline based on the east coast and they live in LA. And then they complain about commuting.

 

Lightning, It doesn't look like I will get a shot at a 340. I haven't applied at Colgan, and am not planning to. Got a letter from Mesaba a couple of years ago that said "Call us back when you have a First Class Medical" (I had it scheduled). After I got it (very soon thereafter), they weren't hiring anymore, and I would have gotten furloughed anyway. I don't know anyone else who flies them, so it will probably just stay on my list. There is also a place in Griffin, Georgia, that does DC-3 types, but I will have to be a Boeing captain before I can afford that! (Gimme a break, PFT guys! It's a DC-3 and I'm not talking about buying a job!) I have a little King Air 200 time and Twin Otter time. They are both a lot of fun!

 

Good point! Even most major airline pilots seem to get treated like wet food stamps by their employers. With the exception of SWA but you all knew that.