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I can tell you that I as a professional will always put safety first and will not allow a company to back me into a corner and choose between a unsafe job and a safe unemployment. Things like this at Colgan need to be brought out and sung from the highest peaks in order for change to occur.
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Originally Posted by ChipChelios
(Post 761658)
Sounds like you put yourself on a pedestal. What may I ask makes you such an expert?
Unfortunately, he's actually right about this, but he could spare us all the condescending tone of his posts. |
Originally Posted by ChipChelios
(Post 761647)
Yes, that is true for most flight crews at Colgan as well. You can't tell me that your management is any better then any other airlines management including Colgan.
I work at Mesa, and the folks in the training dept., the check airmen, and the chief pilots, are fantastic folks. These are the guys who run the day to day operations. JO and his buds are too busy playing golf, spending money, and more recently, doing BK paperwork to know or care how long of a duty day I had yesterday. Not much regarding pilots cross these guys desks, ever. They seem to think they're above it. In the end, its better that they stay out of it. Chuck Colgan, however, still runs the hiring process personally. He calls and sets up interviews with applicants. That's a job a administrative assistant does at every other airline. His hands are on everything, and it shows. |
Originally Posted by Fishfreighter
(Post 761499)
The most damning item in the whole show was the Colgan Director of Ops, Dean Badanavais standing up for the Captain who falsified the weight and balance. If you get caught with your pants down, you don't tell the FAA this was one of your best Captains, you tell them you fired his butt. It was very illustrative of the attitude of management.
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Well, I was there for a year and I can attest that their stories are true.
The falsifying of load manifests (happens to a degree everwhere I'd imagine), changing report times to comply with FAR's , threatening crew members when calling in sick (also happens lots of places). I never heard about the captain in question though, so I cannot comment. |
Originally Posted by ChipChelios
(Post 761480)
I don't perceive it, I live it every day. I have never been pressured to "move the rig" and never asked to fudge paperwork. I will stand up the the flight crews that I know and fly with every day. They are very professional and perform just as well as any mainline crew I have witnessed from a jumpseat!
Every single airline in the world today could fill a one hour slot on Frontline with their own problems! |
Originally Posted by JoeyMeatballs
(Post 761510)
isn't it kind of understood that Airline Pilots that come from the civilian pool have all of these?
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Originally Posted by Fishfreighter
(Post 761475)
Don't worry. There are plenty of pilots who'll go to work anywhere as long as they think they'll get ahead faster. Colgan is no different from Virgin or Allegiant in that respect.
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Originally Posted by ChipChelios
(Post 761636)
I was hired in '08...before the accident. You are mistaken if you think I don't know what goes on in the industry. I am speaking of what I myself deal with on a day to day on the job. My point is Colgan should not be the only Regional Airline to get bashed when they are all dirty! I also said in a previous thread that all that sounds like the Pre-Pinnacle era Colgan.
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Originally Posted by smackahoCEO
(Post 761608)
No, they are among the other handful of bottom feeder airlines that do this. This is not routine at most regional airlines. Glad I didn't go there and held out for a respectable job offer.
Hard to take someone seriously with a name "SmackahoCEO," and this coming from a guy who has OJ Simpson as an avatar. |
*the fo in the story had a personal dispute with the captain and thought he would not get in trouble for turning in the captain for flying overweight. At the end of the day they were both guilty because they both knowingly left the ground that way.
*Most of the examples given about pilot pushing were things that went on in the days of outstations and no over nights. I have worked here over 2 and a half years and have had less than 6 days over 14 hours and over half of them were because of something I picked up, not something I was scheduled for. *Our union has passed several LOA's with management that have made this a much better place to work. *I spent last weekend in a hotel pay protected for my trip while in the same hotel a Republic crew and their 4 day trip was down to 6 hours pay credit because they are not pay protected for weather. I was protected to 20 hrs of credit for 5 legs. *Espress Jet has more daily departures in IAH than CAL and almost as many departures in EWR as CAL (so who's really hurting the insdustry). We don't need to point fingers at other pilots and we don't need to point fingers at other regionals, We need to work together to make things better or if you really hate things that much then do us all a favor and quit. Regardless, shut up, I am sick of hearing how unfair your aviation career is because of Colgan. |
the pilots qol, pay, and time off at colgan arent even on the same page as other regionals. Are you a professional? then why dont you value yourself enough to demand to get treated like it. XJT having more departure then CAL is an entirely different discussion. This discussion is about pilots and pilot applicants rolling over and accepting a completely unacceptable deal in order to????
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drummer- Don't bring up XJT. They have nothing to do with this.
We, Colgan Pilots just need to worry about running a safe operation. Period. |
Colgan might have a line out the door for jobs right now but we'll see what happens when the industry starts hiring en masse again. Might end up like Mesa where people walk away for other regionals just to get away from such an awful operation. We'll see how they "move the rig" then.
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Originally Posted by drummerguy
(Post 761744)
*the fo in the story had a personal dispute with the captain and thought he would not get in trouble for turning in the captain for flying overweight. At the end of the day they were both guilty because they both knowingly left the ground that way.
Who cares if he had a personal dispute withe the CA? They flew illegaly. *I spent last weekend in a hotel pay protected for my trip while in the same hotel a Republic crew and their 4 day trip was down to 6 hours pay credit because they are not pay protected for weather. I was protected to 20 hrs of credit for 5 legs. You're supposed to get that. Do you want a cookie? *Espress Jet has more daily departures in IAH than CAL and almost as many departures in EWR as CAL (so who's really hurting the insdustry). Colgan. We don't need to point fingers at other pilots and we don't need to point fingers at other regionals, We need to work together to make things better or if you really hate things that much then do us all a favor and quit. Regardless, shut up, I am sick of hearing how unfair your aviation career is because of Colgan. And I am sick of regional FOs claiming that everything is all good now that they passed a few insignificant LOAs, all the while this whole time their regional has grown by bottom feeding and taking over flying and by doing it with virtually no work rules. |
Originally Posted by Jay5150
(Post 761614)
You're - not "your". OK, maybe we let that one go....
-but- "Paided" for everything. Really? "Paided" for everything. What do you have do get a job at that place? Not be currently on parole and be able to put all the blocks through the correct holes in a toddler's shape sorter? Finally, don't insinuate that Sully & Skiles are in the same league as these others.....you embarrass yourself. LOL!!!!!!! Sometimes when writing on the iPhone it tends to add stuff or maybe I'm just a ruh-tard. |
Originally Posted by AJDWINGS
(Post 761615)
Guys lets look at the big picture here. Instead of badmouthing and fingerpointing at each other we should be uniting together against that As%^&le Cohen. Thats the big problem. When the guy at the head of the industry does not think there is a problem then we will never get anywhere. I don;t think anything uncovered in that special last night DOES not or HAS not happened at your "platinum" regional. I seem to recall another carrier taking off on the wrong runway a few years ago. Didn;t we all learn during instrument training to check the DG against the runway heading? Same way we learned stall recovery? But something happened. The crew made a grave mistake and they paid for it. I can probably name quite a few accidents over the years that have been caused by pilots screwing up bad. The worst one in history (Tenerife) was one example. How many hours do you think those guys had? Quite a few I'd guess. Planes crash because people make mistakes.
Just end the Colgan bashing. I have been there a few years and have never been uncomfrotable with any captain I have flown with. I.m not saying that the incidents described on Frontline last night never happened. But when did they happen? There is definately Old Colgan and New Colgan. If you are on the outside looking in then you cant see the positive changes that have happened over the last two years. We see it and there is no one here that will deny that things are changing for the better and ALL the negative things (pay included) ARE and WILL be dealt with. So either recocnize and support what is going on here or just keep bashing it and become part of the problem. This Cohen guy needs to be dealt with together by all the regional airline pilots he supposedly represents. |
Originally Posted by newarkblows
(Post 761747)
the pilots qol, pay, and time off at colgan arent even on the same page as other regionals. Are you a professional? then why dont you value yourself enough to demand to get treated like it. XJT having more departure then CAL is an entirely different discussion. This discussion is about pilots and pilot applicants rolling over and accepting a completely unacceptable deal in order to????
does anyone actually blame ALPA? i remember when mesa signed that new TA and in that trash can liner magazine they send me every month that criminal Prater referred to it as "industry leading". we're all playing chess, we've all got our game plan, some involve getting beat down for a quick upgrade, others involve 8 year sits in the right seat at a more respectable regional. instead of blaming joe fo on the bottom of the seniority list why don't you ask what your union is doing for you besides spending your dues on steaks, port, and cigars? its just classic that since you make four dollars more an hour and get 2-3 extra days off a month all the sudden someone else at a so called “bottom feeder” is tarnishing your industry. |
Originally Posted by tzadik
(Post 761786)
this is classic dude...
does anyone actually blame ALPA? i remember when mesa signed that new TA and in that trash can liner magazine they send me every month that criminal Prater referred to it as "industry leading". we're all playing chess, we've all got our game plan, some involve getting beat down for a quick upgrade, others involve 8 year sits in the right seat at a more respectable regional. instead of blaming joe fo on the bottom of the seniority list why don't you ask what your union is doing for you besides spending your dues on steaks, port, and cigars? its just classic that since you make four dollars more an hour and get 2-3 extra days off a month all the sudden someone else at a so called “bottom feeder” is tarnishing your industry. |
Originally Posted by SilkySmooth
(Post 761712)
I think not. There are many 250 hour wonder pilots out there that only have a CMEL rating! Getting a CFI, now that would be like goin' to Grad school or something...
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with all the bad publicity....i am almost sure the name "colgan" will soon cease to exist...the whole operation will be blended into pinnacle, in fact the headquarters at manasas has already been closed, and moved down to memphis. i am sure both the pinnacle pilots and colgan pilots know that it is to their interest to merge the seniority list-and avoid the whipsaw.
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Originally Posted by tzadik
(Post 761630)
make no mistake about it... this is a dirty dirty business... and completion factor payment does nothing but invite danger. while its true that some jobs in this business are more desired than others id being willing to bet that from colgan all the way up through horizon some pretty shady business practices are in place all across the board. keep in mind we're all underpaid and overworked and i'm pretty sure its music to the ears of executives when they log onto this forum and see us b***hing each other out and blaming one another for undercutting and destroying each other’s QOL. Kind of funny when we blame a pilot for working at colgan for slave wages under a turrrible contract when others are making what $3 more an hour and working under an almost equally crappy contract. I think OJ and chucky and the rest should probably receive the majority of the finger pointing.
oh by the way... all of this took place under the watchful eye of the mighty ALPA. greattttttt representation as always. oh and mr airline union representative guy please spare us all the it would be so much worse without us rhetoric. IIRC ALPA was only recently brought in at COLGAN. ALPA is not some sort of pie in the sky. ALPA is only good as the membership. Blaming ALPA is not only easy, its counterproductive. It would be like saying America is a crappy country because of the actions of our elected officials. Work harder and try again later. You have exceeded your predetermined fail level. |
Originally Posted by cal73
(Post 761818)
Blame ALPA for how bad an air carrier is?
IIRC ALPA was only recently brought in at COLGAN. ALPA is not some sort of pie in the sky. ALPA is only good as the membership. Blaming ALPA is not only easy, its counterproductive. It would be like saying America is a crappy country because of the actions of our elected officials. Work harder and try again later. You have exceeded your predetermined fail level. ya i blame ALPA for how bad an air carrier has become... because we've all heard the words "do it and grieve it" one too many times. they're supposed to be our protection from the inequities of this business. last i checked i didn't have the choice to freely elect ALPA as my representation they just automatically deduct money from my paycheck then let the company freight train us. everyone sings a different tune before they get to washington buddy. |
Originally Posted by minimwage4
(Post 761643)
I almost puked after watching the show yesterday. But I don't for one second feel sorry for those former colgan pilots on that show. Anyone that applies to colgan is equally as guilty for dragging down the industry. Nothing will change there because it can't. I mean if you watched that yesterday and are still in the process of applying, you really have no self respect. God help you.
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Originally Posted by cal73
(Post 761818)
Blame ALPA for how bad an air carrier is?
IIRC ALPA was only recently brought in at COLGAN. ALPA is not some sort of pie in the sky. ALPA is only good as the membership. Blaming ALPA is not only easy, its counterproductive. It would be like saying America is a crappy country because of the actions of our elected officials. Work harder and try again later. You have exceeded your predetermined fail level. |
Originally Posted by paxhauler85
(Post 761689)
He's a mid seniority F/O at American Eagle. Not a flying expert. He's only an expert on having a "holier than thou" attitude.
Originally Posted by paxhauler85
(Post 761689)
Unfortunately, he's actually right about this.
but on the few occasions I'm not, I'll at least admitt it unlike other folks. |
Originally Posted by iPilot
(Post 761755)
Colgan might have a line out the door for jobs right now but we'll see what happens when the industry starts hiring en masse again. Might end up like Mesa where people walk away for other regionals just to get away from such an awful operation. We'll see how they "move the rig" then.
People would fail out of class at regional X and then run to Colgan for a job and they would pick them right up. Colgan is the bottom of the barrel, the lowest of the low... that being said I think these threads should die... No matter what people say on here Colgan is gonna have people knocking down there door to work there, and nothing we say on here is gonna change that. |
You guys are all pretty mean. We are forever doomed because nobody seems to get that we should stand united instead of against eachother. The next person who speaks badly about a fellow union pilot is gay.
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Originally Posted by Jamers
(Post 761895)
You guys are all pretty mean. We are forever doomed because nobody seems to get that we should stand united instead of against eachother. The next person who speaks badly about a fellow union pilot is gay.
It is funny... |
Originally Posted by Jamers
(Post 761895)
You guys are all pretty mean. We are forever doomed because nobody seems to get that we should stand united instead of against eachother. The next person who speaks badly about a fellow union pilot is gay.
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if you think blaming someone, or a union entity will make you feel better, that's truly your own business. The same my crappy regional is better than your crappy regional is getting old. Instead of pointing fingers, how about we show some respect to other professionals. Although I'm the eternal optimist and hope that one day we can all sit down and sing cumbaya, I'm a realist in saying that we're not going to be able to get anything done in this industry if we keep blaming each other.
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Originally Posted by Jamers
(Post 761895)
You guys are all pretty mean. We are forever doomed because nobody seems to get that we should stand united instead of against each other.
Originally Posted by tzadik
(Post 761964)
we're all brothers in arms in my mind... i always have and i always will bend over backwards to help a fellow pilot with a jumpseat, first class, or anyway i can... but dude i can't stand the true believers.
Originally Posted by flythemuppets
(Post 762000)
The same my crappy regional is better than your crappy regional is getting old. Instead of pointing fingers, how about we show some respect to other professionals. Although I'm the eternal optimist and hope that one day we can all sit down and sing cumbaya, I'm a realist in saying that we're not going to be able to get anything done in this industry if we keep blaming each other.
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This is all the fault of the Major airlines and the FAA...
Major airlines should require 1,000 hours of CFI or 135 single pilot. The FAA needs to require 1,000 hours PIC in AIRPLANES with no substitutes! |
^ I agree, you can always tell one someone was a CFI or had a lot of stick time toying around in a 172, its the guys that went from 0 time to an airline in 12months that are awful..................
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Originally Posted by JoeyMeatballs
(Post 762139)
^ I agree, you can always tell one someone was a CFI or had a lot of stick time toying around in a 172, its the guys that went from 0 time to an airline in 12months that are awful..................
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Originally Posted by tzadik
(Post 762307)
disagree... just like every other profession you either have it or you dont. i went from zero to CRJ-900 in 14 months. first day/first flight of IOE i heard the words "your leg your brief"... and you know what, it went fine because i have it. I'm quite good at what i do, but at the same time i deeply hold the belief that every day in the air is another opportunity to learn something new and grow as an aviator. i've been humbled and i have impressed and i've never even touched a 172.
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Originally Posted by Nevets
(Post 762315)
I'm sorry but I can't resist: I hope this is an attempt at flame bait.:o
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Originally Posted by tzadik
(Post 762307)
disagree... just like every other profession you either have it or you dont. i went from zero to CRJ-900 in 14 months. first day/first flight of IOE i heard the words "your leg your brief"... and you know what, it went fine because i have it. I'm quite good at what i do, but at the same time i deeply hold the belief that every day in the air is another opportunity to learn something new and grow as an aviator. i've been humbled and i have impressed and i've never even touched a 172.
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Originally Posted by tzadik
(Post 762307)
disagree... just like every other profession you either have it or you dont. i went from zero to CRJ-900 in 14 months. first day/first flight of IOE i heard the words "your leg your brief"... and you know what, it went fine because i have it. I'm quite good at what i do, but at the same time i deeply hold the belief that every day in the air is another opportunity to learn something new and grow as an aviator. i've been humbled and i have impressed and i've never even touched a 172.
Just curious how cheaply you gave your amazing skills away for to fly that 90 seat jet. Just because you can be an oxygen thief in the right seat with minimal time doesn't mean you have the decision making skills to handle something when the ****** hits the fan and everyone is expecting you to save their bacon. You may have it but you ceartinly don't get it.:eek: |
Originally Posted by tzadik
(Post 762307)
disagree... just like every other profession you either have it or you dont. i went from zero to CRJ-900 in 14 months. first day/first flight of IOE i heard the words "your leg your brief"... and you know what, it went fine because i have it. I'm quite good at what i do, but at the same time i deeply hold the belief that every day in the air is another opportunity to learn something new and grow as an aviator. i've been humbled and i have impressed and i've never even touched a 172.
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