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Quote:

Originally Posted by Mason32 (Post 984208)

You guys are so entertaining with all your "oh we're getting spun off stuff." Come on now, have any of you even thought it through in the stightest bit? I'll dumb it down for you all.

lets say...
AMR stock at $6.

AMR spins Eagle off to existing shareholders so the end result is shareholders have AMR/AA at $5 a share, and Eagle at $1 a share (example only guys - relax)... They have been telling your union for months that you are too expensive and not cost competative, and that they are going to outsource to the lowest bidder.

What this means is that AMR management is asking the Board of Directors to authorize the spin off of Eagle as a standalone, and to split the share value in whatever ratio they come up with... then they are going to bid out your flying to the lowest bidder which won't be you guys since Eagle is not cost competative... so, Eagle goes out of business.

Does that sound like a good career move to you for any of the CEO's? That business plan is career suicide. Both Arpey and Garton will be on the street the next day when all of the Eagle shares become worthless... and a few BOD members may be right behind them if they are to stave off a stockholder revolt.

This isn't about forcing you guys to be cost competative or to bid for your flying... it's about setting up their options to do an end run around our scope restrictions by spining you off, and making you an interline provider instead of a CPA contractor. The stage was set with jetBlue... You will do the same flying you do now, but in larger airplanes. As an interline provider you are not under our scope section for regional feeders, and by DOT standards you have become a major carrier. They will reprogram Sabre to make your flights the flights of choice when people book ticket travel, just as they do now. The revenue will be going back to the same group of shareholders.

The other option this spin off sets them up for is to BK us while having you guys around to continue flying as much of the schedules as possible.

In the grand scheme of things; getting your own union to help talk concessions is just icing on the cake for management.... it makes no difference if you guys work for free... it isn't about Eagle, it's about AA.

So on one hand Mason, you're arguing that Arpey and the boyz would be out on their keesters for partially hosing the shareholders with worthless Eagle stock (in your example, say 1/6) via spinoff, yet espousing that wouldn't occur by doing the same thing with BK for AA, with the exception it would be hosing 5/6th of their share value ?

.....and they'd do this simply to turn Eagle into their answer for competing with mainline DAL, UAL and LCC's like SWA with 90-seat RJ's, none of which have plans for wiping out their domestic mainline for a similar scheme ?

Or do you have Arpey transferring AA's 737's to Eagle as well ?

I must have missed something here...........perhaps you could clarify ?

I've said this before...Eagle will be the new AA (as I'm running out the door)

Quote:

Originally Posted by eaglefly (Post 984223)

What would Eagle really be worth if AMR gets to retain the assets (airplanes) to the shareholders?

Quote:

Originally Posted by samballs (Post 984213)

No if diversified we would have a 5 year contract then they would bid our AC away. Which shareholders would like, since they would sell Eagle stock the day they got anyway, and by bidding to lowest bidder they would get an increase in AMR stock. Your falling into step one, ask the 18 yr guys at OH how step one feels since they will be on the street next summer, and 20 yr guys will be reserve

A big difference as of right now between Comair and Eagle is everyone could and did bid on Comair flying. As of right now only 3 other companies can bid on Eagle flying: TSA, Air Wisconsin, CHQ arm of RAH.
Wisconsin cost are as high as Eagle
AMR did like TSA
RAH is getting out of the feed game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ERJF15 (Post 984323)

I've said this before...Eagle will be the new AA (as I'm running out the door)

Considering what the Eagle pilots are facing, it doesn't surprise me so many are clinging to delusional fantasies like this.

I guess it's the only way to cope.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Chow (Post 984335)

What would Eagle really be worth if AMR gets to retain the assets (airplanes) to the shareholders?

BINGO! the share split is way more like 1:100 than 1:6. Eagle is nothing more than an over-priced staffing company without the airplanes and CPA. The shareholders are going to make out like kings by the end of this thing.

There is no feed for Eagle to bid on outside AA, and even if there was Eagle is totally uncompetitive (by union admission).

Eagle will eventually evaporate into nothing as all flying is bid out to the low bidders, and the shareholders lose nothing because Eagle is worthless without a CPA or equipment, and AA benefits by whipsawing regionial feed for the forseeable future, just like the olden days

Long time lurker, first post...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mason32 (Post 984208)

I think you hit it right on the head. However one point; I think TSA with their MRJ order (50 orders/50 options) and Republic with their C-Series (40 orders/40 options) will put a spun off AE in catch up place, which is right where they want us as we start our 2013 contract negotiations, after which I would not doubt there will be new aircraft orders of some sort.

AMR is a black belt at negotiation. They are setting up the best set of conditions to negotiate with a lot of different directions with different companies, with as many options to deal with a lot of changing situations. And sometimes I think they are playing chess while we are thinking checkers.

Being spun off won't necessarily be bad for Eagle, but it won't necessarily be good either and a lot of what will happen is just out of our hands altogether. So try to enjoy the ride while it lasts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrmak2 (Post 984368)

A functioning airline is more than the sum of it's assets. As much as we think we are just cogs, and we are to an extent, the talent, the certificate, and the people in place are worth a lot. That 20 or 30 million they say we are overpriced will evaporate with continued flow through and really it isn't that relevant in a multi billion dollar operation where management bonuses dwarf that amount. Don't play into their fear game.

The Board of Directors and share holders on the other hand are not to be trifled with, and AA/APA has much more to lose in their relative position because they are the real target in the cost cutting scheme.

Hey guys...i'm doing a pilot fatigue survey and I really need the perspective of the regional pilot. I've got plenty of responses from the Delta guys, but I need to hear what you guys have to say. I'm not going to post the link here because I think I'll get poo poo'd by the moderator, but if you guys go to the aviation survey forum it is listed under pilot fatigue. Thanks

Brian

Quote:

Originally Posted by eaglefly (Post 984223)

no, I'm saying it's about an end run around our scope. If all else fails they can BK it and wipe out contracts while reorganizing, without dragging their second major part 121 airline through the BK with them. Pretty smart actually.

Quote:

Originally Posted by eaglefly (Post 984223)

.....and they'd do this simply to turn Eagle into their answer for competing with mainline DAL, UAL and LCC's like SWA with 90-seat RJ's, none of which have plans for wiping out their domestic mainline for a similar scheme ?

None of those other airlines ever had frequent flier programs, or awards programs... all of which were pioneered by AMR. Their long range plan have always been for Eagle to become the domestic carrier and AA to be the international & long haul.... havn'[t you been paying attention the past 25 years? They reitterated this long term game plan publicly as recently as 2007 in a magazine interview. Tjis spin-off is one step closer to that reality.

Quote:

Originally Posted by eaglefly (Post 984223)

Or do you have Arpey transferring AA's 737's to Eagle as well ?

I must have missed something here...........perhaps you could clarify ?

I wouldn't put anything past them. Once you are spun, the one page CPA torn up, and an interline agreement signed, there would be nothing preventing them from shifting deliveries from AA to AE... although, I think the C-series is the more likely bet, they've already publicly stated they were looking at them.