I Quit...
 

Well Last week I quit my prestigious position as a DTW based FO for Pinnacle airlines. I have been saving my pennies for this day. I sacrificed bidding #32 in DTW, holding 18 days off a month with a 90hr. credit. Between the commuting (how can we be broke if every single flight is full ?) and the Schmucks they have in managemnet at pinnacle I am done. I have no new job lined up and I am not even sure that I want to stay in this industry. Between my last job(Plane repossessed) and this place I have a very bad taste in my mouth. Please don't take this the wrong way, I was at Pinnacle for 3 years and liked some of the people that I worked with, but I would not send my worst enemy to work there. If you are considering being a slave for Pinnacle PLEASE reassess your options.

Bravo! Good Job taking a stand!

Sorry
 

Sorry it didn't work out. I use to fantasise quitting at a few companies that I worked for throughout the years. Now that I am out and am in charge of my own destiny life is much better.

Good Luck,

SKyHigh

Simple. If the total cost to operate a flight from point A to point B cost you X and your total revenue for that flight in ticket sales, cargo transporatation, etc. brings in Y:

if ( X > Y )
{
airline.NOTmakeMoney();
}

That's programming speak for if you bring in less than it costs you, well, you don't make money. And everything trickles down.

I'm sorry that the regionals didn't work out for you and that it left a bad taste in your mouth but consider this. There is more to aviation than flying for a regional. Corporate? VLJ (when they arrive)? Instruction? Thanks for validating my fears about signing up with Pinnacle. Whatever you decide, I'm sure you'll find the best course of action for you. Just don't end up at a place like CAPT or their future variant. Best wishes!

Althought the thing is from what I understand..... As part of our ASA NWA pays us power by the hour (or leg) based on completion not by the seat. But hey good luck out there man.

Are you related to DirectBearz?

Friends don't let Friends become Regional Pilots

Hey, Im not passing judgement, but I have to ask if quitting with nothing else lined up was the best option for you? Was that really the last resort? At three years, how close were you to upgrade? Like everyone else, you obviously invested a lot of time and probably money just to get to Pinnacle. It seems that things are finally taking a turn for the better with the Majors which is key for this business. AA just posted considerable profits for 2Q, not to mention the fact that many, many senior pilots at the legacies will be retiring very soon. Just wondering if you considered any of this before you hung up your wings. Best of luck!

Where is everyone getting this data from? CAPT's been telling us the same thing 2 years ago but there's no statistics published that I've read to back that up. Nor did CAPT provide us with any data to back that statement up. Not to be confrontational, but where did you read this? Please provide your source so that I can see for myself. Thanks!

Retirement legend
 

They have been pushing the hiring boom "Retirement Legend" since I was a student pilot. First it was the WWII and Korean war vets, didn't happen. Then they told us that the 1960's hiring boom guys were all on the way out in mass, nothing happened again. Now they are telling us that the baby boomers are going to cause a huge surge in hiring, well you can guess what I think will materialize out of that one.

SkyHigh

That's my suspicion. I mean, they say there's like 1000 pilots for every FO seat. Well...even if 90% of those 1000 people weren't interested, the remaining 10% will more than able to fill those seats.

I say, the Baby Boomer Retirement sales pitch is nothing but another lie and an urban legend!

:D Love that. That should be ALPA's new motto. Except change it to "Pilots" instead of "Regional pilots."

Well, you have to remember that all of the lagacies have retrenched and gotten smaller. There are still over 7400 pilots on furlough from the legacies alone currently..btw, that info i got from here. The legacies are not hiring because for the most part they are not growing, not because the stats about retiring pilots is a lie. But like I said, things are slowly beginning to change. And when I say they will be retiring soon, I do mean about 5 years or so. My point is that things will not stay so stagnant in the industry for too much longer, RELATIVELY speaking. Look at CAL, they are hiring already. United has stepped up its call-back of furloughs. I hope you didn't spend 80K or so on CAPT thinking you would be flying an RJ the day after you completed it and on to the legacies only a few short years after that. My original post was directed at a pilot with 3 years of 121 turbine time under his belt and possibly a capt. (captain, not Riddle C"R"APT program) upgrade not too far off in the future. His shot at a job with the legacies is alot more in his grasp than yours, or mine for that matter. BTW...Im not attacking you either...I went to Riddle also, but didn't even consider doing the 737 program when they had it there, let alone the CAPT program.

I like that! Very creative. I didn't take any offense to what you said. But I did expect a good shot at flying at the regionals after C(R)APT. But only because they said their screening process is geared toward what airlines are looking for in a pilot and that their training is elite, and that they have all these connections and guaranteed interview agreements, blah blah blah...all lies and twisted truths.

Good day sir. :)

Yeah, I know this kid who did CAPT and interviewed with none other than Pinnacle, but he was not hired. He now has an interview with Expressjet though.

Congrats 9E! I know the feeling all too well. I quit on the spot about a month ago from a regional. I had give 2 weeks notice but scheduling tried to screw me over on the wrong day so I just quit. I know that was not the mature thing to do but boy did it feel good! Im out of the aviation industry also as far as a job is concerned. I have found that flying my Piper is more fun! (Not just pushing buttons on the FCP anymore...actual flying!) Good luck in whatever career you choose. I know I am happy as a clam in my new career path. CTL

at 3 years, He should be able to hold a capt slot at Pinnacle. Maybe he didnt want to give up his 18 day off line to go back down to reserve or 10 day off line as a capt. But with his tenure, he definitly could have held the left seat.

Well
 

He must of really hated it then.

SKyHigh

There must be more to the story that we don't know. I can't imagine resigning at this point, considering the effort to get there. And yes, three years are currently enough to hold a line at Pinnacle as a captain.

Not Unusual
 

It is not unusual to up and quit unexpectedly. We had a few guys do that at Horizon. One was a captain who was being forced to transition to a different airframe and during the sim training he decided that he just didn't want to go through all that BS again and quit. He was a good pilot but had enough.

Often when anticipating a coming change we take pause to reflect and self analyze where we are and where we are going. Often it is the catalyst for a paradigm shift.

We are goal oriented, purpose driven beings. Often when the goal is within reach we suddenly realize that we don't really want it anymore but were too busy working to get there to notice.

My theory that a major part of turnover at the regionals comes from dissatisfied pilots who throw in the towel and quit the business. If you airline wannabies try hard enough perhaps you too can quit in disgust in a few years?

SkyHigh

My plane is for sale. Please buy it. I can't stand it anymore.

Without a doubt, as not many are going to the majors. But mostly people leave within the first year. It is unusual to stick it out for three years and then leave just before you upgrade.

Instead of quitting all together, try corporate or freight. I heard its better!

Welcome to the "I aint taking anymore of this crap" club.

Hey Man!

First of all, BRAVO! Ofcourse it's so easy for us to sit here and command ya for doing the right thing. I myself am just getting to the point where i'm applying to the regionals and am already frustrated without even stepping my foot at the door.

I really do command ya for doing what's right for **you**. I wish I had more of the guts to tell that to my current boss and maybe a couple airlines so they would know what they could do with their extention of 'invitations' to join their crowds.

However, I am curious and would very much like to get the realistic point of view. I wanna know why you quit after three years, everything that there is to expect from them without sugar coating it.... would you mine sharing that with me/us?

Any comment would very much be appreciated!

-schone

I agree. Aviation is going to get interesting as they push the more skilled highly goal oriented people away. It seems that most all pilots I know are very goal oriented driven individuals and as aviation turns into a normal bus driving gig I see them leaving to pursue other interests that meet their goals in life.

Also - Pay, Lifestyle, Management, High Job Insecurity, Deteriorating Future, Loss of prestige, are all reasons people leave aviation now and move on in life. Its not just about being Captain of a jet. If the requirements stated abv are met then what seat does it matter that you are in.

First off let me say YES it was a good decision to leave Pinnacle. When you are constantly thinking of ways not to go to work and when you are there you are not happy and want to walk off the flight it is time to leave. I don't know about you but I don't want my family flying on a flight with a somewhat disgruntle pilot in the cockpit.

Flying Ninja, I have already been down the corporate route and it is not a pretty one either. I flew the G4 and G5 aswell as the Citation X (Typed in all three.)for a company in ATL out of PDK, until their planes were taken away for not paying the bills... Corporate Flying is fun because you get to see much more desirable destinations than your regional counterpart IE Aspen, Frankfurt and so on but, you have no life because your pilot group is so small they run you life.

As for airlines not making money I am well aware of the economic structure of these companies especially Northwest. When a company sells all of its assets then leases its old property back from the leasing company things tend to only go downhill from there.

Space Monkey, I am fully aware of the the way Pinnacle gets paid. That is why you will see a flight delayed for 6 hours with ****ed off PAX, instead of rebooking them on another flight just so Pinnacle will get paid for that one flight segment.

Tinpusher007, I could have held the Left seat from my initial class but if you must know I do have my own successful business(NOT run like an airline) and quality of life is very important to me. Even now people close to my senoirity are barely holding 12 days off a month, and then getting extended into their days off. So I chose not to pursue that ave. I would have quit regardless. Though Pinnacle is just not a company that I was proud to work for but, having a seperate income made it that much easier.

FlyerNY, I can see that you understand. I am glad that someone does and that you are not looking for extenuating circumstances which there wasn't
My quitting very well planned out so that I would not get screwed out of anything owed. I took my vacation in January to use that time and then slowly over the 6 month time period use my sick bank. After all that on the day I quit I called My wealth manager at UBS and asked hom to roll over my 401K so they would not have a chance to get me by the sack.

Schone, There is nothing to sugar coat. If you like your life run by people who make $8hr. you will love this job. Don't get me wrong. I still love to fly but I don't think that doing it for a living is for me anymore...

I hope that this answered some questions

All right, 9E-TB! You are an inspiration to me. I never really wanted to run my own business, but having been flying freight for a few months now it is starting to look more appealing. My brother started a framing/general construction business the same time I started this gig and he is now making multiple times what I make and is his own boss (and the boss of others). He just turned 24. The little punk. Well done. The reason I fly freight in a 207 is because I am unwilling to stoop to pay below 20 dollars and hour, even if its only for a year. The regionals need to understand that its not ok, heck its not even safe. You just showed some people that at Pinnacle. Bravo.

And as for the BS retirement boom thing. So there's going to be like 12,000 pilots retiring by 2013. Yeah, so what. Interesting statistic. One of mine is that people who make stastics are as accurate at predicting the future as a gypsy with a crystal ball. But that's not even the point. There's always people retiring. There's many, many thousands of pilots. (You aren't nearly as elite as you would like to believe.) Frankly, I'm surprised that the Age 60 rule hasn't been extended yet, to at least age 62. Is a 61 year old who still meets the requirements of a 1rst class med less fit than a 59 year old?

The crazy thing is, people talk about that retirement boom thing and think, wait, assume that it's 12,000 pilots from today! I'm sure someone said that about 5 years ago. So for the sake of argument, that's a 12 year period. Which makes it 1000 jobs per year. Hrm...I wonder if people still talk the boom when you put things in that perspective.

Flying ninja,
You never answered my question from another thread. I am curious about you and CAPT. Did you do any research before you decided to plunk down the cash and go for that "training" program?

Thats an excellent way to handle yourself in this business. Im pursuing a flying career also and have thought that it would behoove me to have another "hustle". Any suggestions? Besides real estate...everyones doing that.

FlyingNinja- didn't anyone ever tell you that there are no guarantees in life. Get over the fact that you took a chance on the CAPT program and it didn't work out for you. BTW, for the rest of you, FlyingNinja is by far in the minority as a disgruntle CAPT graduate.

LAB727,

Let's not over simplify my situation with CAPT. Yes, I'm in the minority. But that minority is also 1/3 of the cadet core that graduated. And just because I'm the only one (that I know of) sharing with people the disgrace that is the C(R)APT program, doesn't meant that there aren't people that have been burned by the program. ONE-THIRD buddy! So yes, while we're in the MINORITY, we certainly aren't just one or two people. What's the placement rate at C(R)APT these days? Now compare that to other programs like Delta Academy and ATP. I'd say, C(R)APT failed in their goal of 100% placement that they drank beers and sang songs to in the heydays.

And allow me to digress, yes, I know there are no guarantees in life. But C(R)APT said they had 7-9 GUARANTEED interviews set up. When I started, did you know how many guaranteed interviews they have set up? ZERO. It wasn't until the last quarter of 2004 did they even get FocusAir (which isn't a flying job in my opinion because NO ONE that went there is flying yet!). So basically, C(R)APT was lying for a year before they landed FocusAir (because they love to pay for high talents with low pay checks).

I'm over the fact that I took a chance with C(R)APT and it didn't work out for me. But that doesn't mean I can't tell the world that they are a bunch of lying sons of b!tches that push used cars as new.

As far as that disgruntled bit is concerned, I wasn't like this before I entered C(R)APT. This should answer Thedude's question as well. I did my research (but evidently not enough). And I was also WELL AWARE of the www.captiscrap.com (not functional anymore due to a law suit settlement - see the archived version here). The guy that ran that site listed all the reasons that C(R)APT was not the place to be. I read that site everyday for 6 months before I signed up. Back then, I thought, this guy is just some schmuck that is disgruntled or isn't doing well in training, etc. Well, turns out, that guy was RIGHT ON THE MONEY with C(R)APT with EVERYTHING he said. At the time, I blew that guy off and read his posting with a sardonic grin and said to myself, there is no way I'm going to be like him. Well, today, if C(R)APT wasn't dropped by Embry-Riddle like a used tampon, I would have started my own website. But I think watching the forums for newbies that are looking into aviation as a career and warning them off about C(R)APT is more effective a tool. Hell, I'll even go so far as to recommend people to go to ATP and RAA, just don't find yourself at C(R)APT. The management there are a bunch of incompentent automatons following the lead of an old man who still think stealing money from people is a noble thing to do.

Did C(R)APT work out for some? Sure, two-thirds of all the people that went there. And I say, congratulations for making it through with a job at the end of the tunnel. Consider this however. Of all the people that graduated (as far as I know - statistics up to date as of April 2006):

16 out of 48 (33.33%) went to Focus Air.
02 out of 48 (04.16%) went to corporate (which C(R)APT had nothing to do with their placements, but took credit for).
03 out of 48 (06.25%) went to Piedmont (which Piedmont will never take another C(R)APT resume due to CAPT misrepresenting times on their resumes).
14 out of 48 (29.16%) went to Pinnacle.
13 out of 48 (27.08%) went to ASA.

It's funny how C(R)APT pushed FocusAir the most out of any airline opportunity. Why? Because it was the path of least resistance to C(R)APT! And you really can't count the 2 guys that went corporate because CAPT didn't help them land those jobs.

But for those of us in the MINORITY, life isn't good. I stay in touch with some of them and it's just heart breaking to hear it in their voices the defeat and the mental anguish that has been bestowed to them by the broken promises and the lackadaisical approach to handling our placement efforts as well as our plea for help and guidance.

I can go on and on and on but I think I've made my point. Don't take a chance when you might end up in the MINORITY ONE-THIRD. Because I can tell you from experience, you don't want to be here. And those who have not spoken up would also tell you that you don't want to be here. This one-third side of the dice is painful. So for "the rest of you" who are looking for a flight program, keep an eye out for the developments of C(R)APT as they get bought out (if and when that will happen) and avoid them like the black plague.

P.S. C(R)APT said that they would make a grand announcement to the world about them being bought out by a "suitor" (nice word *********s) and that the announcement was to be made on June 1. Today is July 22. No announcement. Yet another example of the continuing bullsh!t sound bites that C(R)APT is famous for. They keep dangling that stale carrot...

Too bad
 

I have to say for those of you rich kids born with a silver spoon in your mouth that forked out someone elses money to buy a flying job, too bad. Maybe if you would have worked your way up in the business the way you should, you would have learned a little about how business is done in aviation, and seen this coming. I have had the misfortune of flying with one of you schmucks and hated every minute of it. You're all a bunch of back stabbing, whiney brats who would throw their mother under the bus to get ahead. I love reading accounts of your inevitable and well deserved downfall. It really says says it all about your character when you just quit a job before you have another one. You obviously are completely irresponsible and therefore have no place in professional aviation IMNSHO. Who's paying your way in the world now I wonder, Mom or Dad?

I know you're not talking about me because I borrowed money to do C(R)APT. I got $100K in debt. And I'm working to pay it back myself over the next 15 years. No one paid my way. And you are right, I shouldn't have taken the short cut with C(R)APT. And you'll never have to worry about flying with me because I can't afford to get into the career.

CJ,

Whats your story? How did you do it? I'm not being a smarta$$ - I'm interested in learning. I want to retire from the military (8 years to go), then get my tickets at a place like ATPS (all inclusive price, i know its a lot but I dont want to waste time / money in an FBO), CFI, then 135 freight , then maybe a regional maybe not depending on how much I like 135 freight world.

Your insights are appreciated....

-LAFF

Glad to
 

Started out as a bench tech at 17, engineer with McDonnell Douglas at 21 (no college), fiber optic engineer hired by a tech startup with stock options, cashed out before the market crash. All the while; Bought my first plane at 19 and built my time up flying myself around for business paying for it with my salary and expenses from the company. Did 91 corporate on the side when I could. Went to work for a fractional, got three type ratings. Got tired of the hotels and airlines. Back in the tech industry flying myself around again in my own twin. It was a fun ride, learned a lot from some great pilots, didn't want to stay there though.

Nice...I'm in IT - EE / networking / telecomm engineer with the USAF. Trying to make the right decision so i can pay for flight school without any loans...

-LAFF

Perfect
 

I recommend you get your Cisco CCIE certification, this will get you hired on the spot for no less than $65k/yr anywhere in the country (the company I now work for pays over $100k for this). You can then buy your own plane, build your time, do some corporate flying on the side and see if that's what you want to do full time. Or do I like I did and try it full time for several years until you've had enough, and then you can always go back to engineering. I would also add that it's a lot more fun flying yourself around then someone else. The cert. you can work on at night and on weekends. By the way, it's great sleeping in my own bed everynight. Good luck and enjoy.

Our Hero
 

Wow!! A true American hero !! Tell them how it is John Wayne !!:rolleyes:


Skyhigh