Originally Posted by asims33 (Post 792659)

Im personally really sick of reading this crap day in and day out... Its the same stuff over and over. You high time Airline pilots are always looking down your nose at those "Wet-ATP-Kid-Wonders" that make it to the right seat....


The airline must have saw some skill in that kid or he wouldnt have been there. If you dont like the industry then leave... If you had to have more hours to be hired than the current market that sucks sorry but i dont wanna hear you complain. I am only 20 years old, ive jumped hurdles and moved mountains to finish my flight training and ill be dammed if i let some bitter old capitain sit here and disrespect me and other young pilots by saying we havent payed our dues...Hell just finishing training is almost impossible nowadays, flight schools trying to rip you off, greedy examiners, bad weather, terrible economy, high fuel prices, bad hiring market, and to beat it all the more experiance pilots like some of you are so bitter you wont even look in the direction of a student pilot or a new pilot let alone help them or give them advice. You should be happy that we dont have to live off food stamps while waiting for a job....Im really sorry if you did, but now you are living your dream you should be stoked. Sounds to me like you are a bit immature to say stuff like that. Im sitting in a marketing office at an insurance company going insane behind a desk to pay my bills waiting for my chance to fly for an airline or cargo company, i have no clue what "dues" you are talking about but that is not in the job requirements sir you need to grow up.


As far as the minimums id say they are gonna be high to start off with just like everyone else. But as ive already learned newer pilots just need to hang in there our time will come.

Originally Posted by asims33 (Post 793292)

I am only 20 years old, ive jumped hurdles and moved mountains to finish my flight training and ill be dammed if i let some bitter old capitain sit here and disrespect me and other young pilots by saying we havent payed our dues...Hell just finishing training is almost impossible nowadays, flight schools trying to rip you off, greedy examiners, bad weather, terrible economy, high fuel prices, bad hiring market, and to beat it all the more experiance pilots like some of you are so bitter you wont even look in the direction of a student pilot or a new pilot let alone help them or give them advice.

Originally Posted by LeftWing (Post 794429)

I'm glad that you're so proud of yourself for getting your ratings. Although I disagree that it as akin to moving mountains, I do remember having that sense of accomplishment and it is fine to feel that way.

There are midlife career changers that were quite accomplished in their former fields. There are also young folks like you that apparently had to work hard to fund your training. However, no matter where you came from or how you got there, getting your ratings is not paying your dues. I'm sure that you've heard the saying about your tickets are your license to learn. To add to that, your ratings simply make it legal for you to START paying your dues.

Originally Posted by asims33 (Post 792659)

The airline must have saw some skill in that kid or he wouldnt have been there. If you dont like the industry then leave... If you had to have more hours to be hired than the current market that sucks sorry but i dont wanna hear you complain. I am only 20 years old, ive jumped hurdles and moved mountains to finish my flight training and ill be dammed if i let some bitter old capitain sit here and disrespect me and other young pilots by saying we havent payed our dues...Hell just finishing training is almost impossible nowadays, flight schools trying to rip you off, greedy examiners, bad weather, terrible economy, high fuel prices, bad hiring market, and to beat it all the more experiance pilots like some of you are so bitter you wont even look in the direction of a student pilot or a new pilot let alone help them or give them advice.

Originally Posted by asims33 (Post 794477)

Ok to address the post before this one. I am very humble, you do not know me and have nor met me, you analyze me through these posts in which i am angry about how new young pilots are treated. I know many captains and show as much respect to them as i can. I stated it very clearly earlier, i dont want your respect off the bat that is something not only do i HAVE to earn, i want to earn it and not just get it. BUT with that being said i absolutely will NOT be disrespected by people who dont even know me or how i fly, and SOME captains have that attitude and say very rude things on these forums about new pilots and that is not ok with me. That has nothign to do with me being humble or not.

Now for the next post, I am not arguing that captains have not payed their dues, nor am i arguing that "dues" arent important. What my argument is is that some captains automatically dislike or flat out hate younger pilots because they generalize us into a pool of pilots that cannot fly.

I have not claimed to pay my dues, all i have said is that these captains who constantly insult younger pilots should be ashamed.

If you disagree thats cool i dont mind, all ive said is what i feel.

I am as humble as i can be even to these captains that i disagree with please dont get that wrong.

Originally Posted by asims33 (Post 794477)

i am angry about how new young pilots are treated. BUT with that being said i absolutely will NOT be disrespected by people who dont even know me or how i fly, and SOME captains have that attitude and say very rude things on these forums about new pilots and that is not ok with me. That has nothign to do with me being humble or not.

What my argument is is that some captains automatically dislike or flat out hate younger pilots because they generalize us into a pool of pilots that cannot fly.

I have not claimed to pay my dues, all i have said is that these captains who constantly insult younger pilots should be ashamed.

.

Originally Posted by Blueskies21 (Post 794492)

Maybe you have a short memory? I think most people would construe the first quote to be you saying you HAVE paid your dues.... Maybe it's just me. It seems to me you recharacterize alot of what you "meant" in previous posts. There's several guys saying you're not humble enough and you think everyone is wrong? You claim that guys can't judge you without knowing you or how you fly, attitude has a lot to do with it, it's pretty clear how you feel. Everyone holding a commercial pilots license should know how to fly, you don't get extra points for that, attitude is everything.

Originally Posted by AirWillie (Post 794503)

I'm assuming when you say younger, you're talking about less experienced because age has 0 bearing in the cockpit. And yes that's true you have 0 experience until you've stepped in that next environment ready to learn, young or old. I don't think you realize the PIC responsibility, you as a new guy are almost a liability for the CA. So there is a general hesitancy at first to trust the new guy, hence the perceived disrespect. There is absolutely no reason why a CA should "insult" anyone, that only make his or her job harder. I think you're struggling to comprehend this concept.

Originally Posted by asims33 (Post 794589)

I dont expect a captain to know and respect me as soon as i walk in, his cautiousness is absolutely fine. But calling me a "Play Pilot" or "Wet-ATP-Kid-Wonder" is an insult and that is not ok, and further more the kid part in the last quote has everything to do with age. As does the other posters talking about me being 20 and not having enough life experience. So there most deff has been some reference to my age as well as others.

I dont claim to be an amazing pilot, i dont claim to have paid my dues, and i dont say every young or new pilot is worthy of a FO seat or should be fully trusted, i am also not saying the captain should trust everyone who sits in the other seat. What i am saying is that if you are the captain maturity and respect should be given to anyone sitting in the other seat and that is clearly not the case with SOME captians. We can argue til the sun goes down, i am plenty humble just have some issues with people insulting me without knowing me. And yes there have been plenty of generalizations by them that has grouped me into these pilots and i take offense so i say something.

Not one person here can say my logic is faulty because all im saying and all ive been saying is that some captains insulting most all new FOs without 121 exp is unacceptable especially in an industry that demands professionalism.

Originally Posted by Fletch727 (Post 794598)

Here's your first word of advice for when you make it into the 121 world. Introduce yourself to the captain, be yourself, and be professional. If he's a douche, derogatory, ugly, funny-looking, or anything else that might annoy you, simply be polite, professional, and quiet. There's nothing wrong with not arguing with a guy you might be stuck with on a 4-day trip simply to save pride. Sometimes a quiet cockpit is best purely for sanity.

I simply smile when some jackass talks or looks down at me when I fly a little 150 at the FBO for fun and they get out of their Baron, King Air or helicopter, full well knowing that I fly something bigger, better, and all over the world, seeing things they only wish they could. What they don't know doesn't hurt them, and they still get to go home and think they're cool.

Long story short - chill. Step back, let people talk. Guaranteed, you aren't the only one who thinks someone is a blowhard.

Originally Posted by asims33 (Post 794584)

I can see where that can be mis-taken but at no point in my post did i say i have payed my dues. I made a comment on how all young pilots are assumed to not have paid their dues and some of them have. I never said me or mentioned any names.


Yes i say the people telling me i am not humble are wrong because i am humble, i am as respectful to the more experienced pilots as i can be. The people disagreeing with me here have a problem with my attitude towards those who have frustrated me. That is understandable and completely ok.

Im not here for a popularity contest man i just want to stop being insulted as a pilot just because i havent worked 121 before.

Attitude is alot of it but most deff not everything, i think everyone here would agree that some people get their tickets and still dont have the 1st clue about some things, so skill and knowledge also have alot to do with it.

Originally Posted by ThrustMonkey (Post 794952)

You are proving our point by all of your retorts. You post on a public message board a message that is filled with attitude and anger and you get upset when people push back. Of COURSE we don't kow you. If thats what you want....people to know you and judge you by different means...then stop posting on a public site and scratch your head when you get responses like you have.

Saying your humble and respectful doesn't mean you are when your posts oooze with attitude and a lack of humbleness. Actions speak louder than words. You might want to start LISTENING instead of speaking and you'll learn alot more.

You see in most endeavors, and 121 is no exception, there is something called a right of passage. I went through it, we all went through it. Part of that is that the more experienced guys like to teach, like to kid, like to see your fortitude. Your going to need to learn to let things roll of your back with a grin and LEARN instead of reacting like you have here with attitude, irritability and being easily offended. The more you act like that the longer that right of passage will be. You'll rapidly grow a thick skin or sink.

BUT, youth usually likes to learn the hard way no matter what people say so good luck. You'll need it if and when you get to this level with your current attitude.

Originally Posted by ThrustMonkey (Post 794952)

You are proving our point by all of your retorts. You post on a public message board a message that is filled with attitude and anger and you get upset when people push back. Of COURSE we don't kow you. If thats what you want....people to know you and judge you by different means...then stop posting on a public site and scratch your head when you get responses like you have.

Saying your humble and respectful doesn't mean you are when your posts oooze with attitude and a lack of humbleness. Actions speak louder than words. You might want to start LISTENING instead of speaking and you'll learn alot more.

You see in most endeavors, and 121 is no exception, there is something called a right of passage. I went through it, we all went through it. Part of that is that the more experienced guys like to teach, like to kid, like to see your fortitude. Your going to need to learn to let things roll of your back with a grin and LEARN instead of reacting like you have here with attitude, irritability and being easily offended. The more you act like that the longer that right of passage will be. You'll rapidly grow a thick skin or sink.

BUT, youth usually likes to learn the hard way no matter what people say so good luck. You'll need it if and when you get to this level with your current attitude.

Originally Posted by Red Forman (Post 794965)

Another problem asims is that you talk way too much.

Originally Posted by Fletch727 (Post 794598)

Here's your first word of advice for when you make it into the 121 world. Introduce yourself to the captain, be yourself, and be professional. If he's a douche, derogatory, ugly, funny-looking, or anything else that might annoy you, simply be polite, professional, and quiet. There's nothing wrong with not arguing with a guy you might be stuck with on a 4-day trip simply to save pride. Sometimes a quiet cockpit is best purely for sanity.

I simply smile when some jackass talks or looks down at me when I fly a little 150 at the FBO for fun and they get out of their Baron, King Air or helicopter, full well knowing that I fly something bigger, better, and all over the world, seeing things they only wish they could. What they don't know doesn't hurt them, and they still get to go home and think they're cool.

Long story short - chill. Step back, let people talk. Guaranteed, you aren't the only one who thinks someone is a blowhard.

Originally Posted by LeftWing (Post 795506)

I agree with your advice. However, I have to ask about what I highlighted in bold. Aren't you just as guilty as said jackass by implying that your bigger airplane is better? How do you know that they wish they could see any of the things you see? No matter how much bigger your airplane and no matter how many things you see that you think other people wish they could, doesn't necessarily mean that you're envied.

Sometimes people are content with flying a smaller airplane locally and to them, it might be "better" to being away from home for a couple or three weeks.