Originally Posted by stickwiggler

D'angie, this will be my last post to you because given your history and the content of your post it is obvious that you have limited experience in aviation, a complete lack of the big picture, and are a man of little to no moral fiber.
You seem to think that anyone that disagrees with you is someone blindly following the pack. Did it ever occur to you that the reason that so many people "follow the pack" is because they simply agree what is the best course of action?
You say that ALPA is stuck in the past. I suggest that you read a little. Those who fail to study history are bound to repeat it. Did you ever stop to ask why alpa does the one upmanship contract based negotiations? It is because the industry is cyclical, when it's up, you do the one upmanship, when it is down, management rides that wave and has a race to the bottom.
What you really don't seem to get is that the regionals are all in a competition for contracts. The reason that a lot of good guys are out of a job or back sliding in the profession is because companies have to lower there cost to get the bids. If it were not for the unions trying to keep the wages up, do you really think that Jerry would pay SW pilots as well as he does? Of course not, he pays exactly what he has to to stay competitive to attract pilots. If all the unions went away, companies would race to the bottom. A pure capitolist would say, let it happen...eventually no one will work for "x" number of dollars and the balance will be reached. Here's the problem, too many snot nose, jelled hair, sketcher wearing, momma's boys (I'm sure that is not you) are willing to sell there soul to "get in" and think that it will be an easy ride to a "better job later" The crew lounges of American Eagle, ASA, Chitaqua, Comair, Mesa, etc. are full of guys who thought the same thing. Events outside of your control can play an enormous role in all of our futures.
you pose the hypathetical, "what if comair would have been after 9/11" we need not ponder this hypathetical, I'M LIVING IT right now. Our contract expired in 2002, since then management has come to us with pay cuts. We refused, through discussion and a strike vote, now management has taken pay cuts off the table and tried to get savings somewhere else (operations/training/scheduling etc.) Do you think if we would have caved, that other managment would not have followed? Maybe not just one airline but after 3 or 4 went down that road, what do you think Jerry (Lorenzo) Atkins would have done to your pay?

I find it interesting that you use the "kids smoking at school reference" I guess it makes sense. We all have to draw on the sum of our experience.

Pilots are not rocket scientist, but they are a pretty smart group of guys/gals, most of which are A++ types prown to independent thinking. If you find yourself at odds with what the vast majority of your fellow pilots think, then maybe it is not that the majority are all fools, but rather you just have a LOT to learn.

Originally Posted by D'Angelo

The banning was a pure emotional decision because the mod was a former pinnacle if not maybe mesaba pilot. Trust me people have said far worse things than me and not gotten permanently banned over there. People over there simply didn't like the fact that I didn't talk like a union borg member. Trust me I recieved many messages of support and many messages of hate upto and including death threats. Compared to what many other people have said and done over there my stuff was minor leage. Simply spirited debate is all it was and thats all this is. I guess its really easy to get promoted to management now a days. All you have to do is not talk like the other pilots and voila! Instant promotion.

Originally Posted by D'Angelo

No actually pilots have a lot to learn. They try and ruin lots of peoples lives with their selfish strikes. Without dispatchers, bag handlers, customer service there would be no airline. Pilots are too arrogant to realize that fact. PILOTS DO NOT MAKE AN AIRILNE GO ROUND. It takes a team effort. Unfortunately somewhere along the way pilots egos got way out of control. Now they think they are better than everyone else. NEWSFLASH we pilots are no better than anyone else. No we pilots are simply cogs in the machine. Without management and everyone else there would be no airline and thus no paycheck. If you asked a pilot though they are the only ones that make an airline go round and round. Sorry but people are calling BS on that. I am ashamed of some of the pilots I have to associate with. They are too arrogant to realize they are no important than anyone else.

Originally Posted by stickwiggler

what do you think Jerry (Lorenzo) Atkins would have done to your pay?

Originally Posted by JetJock16

Stickwiggler, you sound like a very intelligent pilot. You speak a lot of truth but don’t put Jerry in the same category as Lorenzo. Lorenzo destroyed airlines, Jerry saved ours. I’m not a management pilot; I support my fellow pilots both at SW and at other airlines. Jerry knows how to play the game and as long as the game is working out for us then why change. Other airlines are stuck with unions and it only betters our position against management when we threaten unions. If you look at our Total Pay Package then you will see that we are among the highest paid in the regional industry. Yes, there are a few things that could get better but we are in a better position that you are at ASA. Don’t think for a second that I don’t know what it’s like at ASA. My BEST FRIEND is a 9 year CA at ASA. Don’t get me wrong, if a union could get the changes we want then we would already have representation. There have been 3 votes here and every time the margin against stays the same, NO UNION. We will just us the threat to get what we want and if we are able to correct just a few problems then we are still in a better position that every other regional out there.

Jerry is very intelligent and he knows the game. He plays it and we get paid, we expand, we hire, we buy, and we take our competitors contracts. My pay and job security continues to improve. At least as secure as it can be. I do want more but ALPA can’t get it.

I understand that here at SkyWest we are a bit spoiled. It is Management vs. pilot but management treats us very well. You talk to 99 out of 100 SW pilots and they will say “You only leave SW for your DREAM JOB. Make sure your DAMN curtains its wants right for you because you’re giving up a seniority number at a DAMN good airline.” Can anyone say that about another regional? Take seniority of out it and just look at the company, can you say that? If you can then I’m glad you’re at a company you believe in.

The bottom line: It’s always going to be US vs. THEM
The question is: Who’s them. SW or Mesa

Too many young pilots will fly for food and because of that this is the industry we’re stuck with. Good luck to all who are smart enough to flight the good flight, I just hope that it is the right fight for you and us. I applaud everyone who has an opinion, whether it’s ignorant or intelligent, because it means that they care. Even the ignorant will learn, just give them time.

Originally Posted by Two-percent

You got banned for using a stupid avatar. When will you ever learn?

Originally Posted by rickair7777

It's not a matter of arrogance or of what we THINK we are worth, it's a matter of WHAT WE CAN GET! Management and other employee groups will do everything in their power to take whatever they can...if we try to be altruistic we will just get burned to the ground for our trouble.

Pilots have more leverage to damage the company in a strike because we can't be rapidly replaced like rampers and mechanics. FA's also take time to replace, but not as long as pilots.

We can only advance and protect ourselves by striking or threatening to. This is the way it has to be at most airlines because management in this industry is inherently unethical (I have worked in other industries where this did not appear to be the case). In this environment there is always room for a compay like skywest that voluntarily meets and exceeds industry compensation standards in order to foster a good, non-union labor atmosphere...but they only rise to the barr set by the unionized carriers.

Originally Posted by Two-percent

Didn't D'angelo have sex with some twelve year old? That seems classy and original. Don't worry, you'll get banned again. Try this avatar on for size. It fits you much better



http://www.thesmokinggun.com/mugshots/dangelomug1.html