Pinnacle Corp Updates
 

Thread to stay informed going forward
Facts -
Three airlines for the time being
Long Term the two airlines will be Mesaba (props) Pinnacle (Jets)
Pinnacle operates 126 CRJ 200's 16 CRJ 900's
Colgan Operates 15 Q400's (15 more coming options for 30 more) 34 Saabs
Mesaba operaes 41 Crj 900's 19 Crj 200's 28 Saabs (to be phased out if they can't be placed elsewhere)
145 CRJ 200's
57 CRJ 900's
30 Q 400's by mid 2011
62 Saab 340s
294 aircraft
All 3 groups are ALPA
Combined company operates for every major except American

Route map stretches the entire country

Questions
How will the lists be merged?
How do we protect the Furloughs at Mesaba?
How do we protect the interests at all 3 airlines?
How and when do we negotiate a contract jointly and how do we make that contract industry leading?

If its done right, I am really looking forward to this going forward

The next contract for PNCL pilots may very well be the combined contract covering all three (2?) companies...should be coming around 3 years from now, and that's being optimistic. HEY! We could be the first pilot group to go a decade into negotiations! WE CAN DO IT GUYS! All we need is just a little patience...

Could you post a list of the combined airline's bases by fleet type?

Does anyone have any idea how long the SLI will take? I'd assume they'd want to get it done quickly because of Mesaba's looming furloughs, Colgan's substantial need for pilots, and Pinnacle's moderate need.

Any idea of when frontline operations will be integrated? for example: When will a Mesaba based MEM pilot begin to be able to use Pinnacle's MEM crewroom? When will the pilots all start to wear the same uniform?

Thanks for the info, how about Colgan and Mesaba's bases?

Does Mesaba have separate or combined pilot groups for the CRJ-200 and -900?

Same pilot group, the aircraft you are in as well as what base you are at depends on:

1. How you have your preference bid (i.e. CRJ 900 CA-DTW as #1 and so on)
2. Where you stack up in the seniority list for the ability to hold your preference

(Although when I was there for 8 years it almost seemed like separate pilot groups between bases---especially MSP and DTW, and aircraft---Saab vs Avro)

DTW was termed "The Dark Side"
MSP was "Mecca" and
MEM was "The leper colony"

However, you call what where and when, these guys and gals were the best to fly with...hands down. We put up with alot of crap with the Foley years, the sham BK, the multiple furloughs--then recall-then furlough again---then recall again pendulum..And through it all, all groups still maintained a safe airline....This has alot to say about the people performing the day to day operations. Its not the battery that "takes a lickin and keeps on tickin"--its the employees of Mesaba.

Sorry, what I meant to ask is, do pilots at Mesaba fly both planes at the same time, or are they only qualified on one or the other?

the companies will be separate at first but even management has said there will be combinations going forward which is something they never said with pinnacle and colgan. I wonder if Mesaba will be 9X since pinnacle is 9E and colgan is 9L

I think the next guy misunderstood your question.
Mesaba flies the 200 and 900 as separate types. Some airlines, Skywest for example, fly them as a common type and could move between the aircraft within months/trips. Mesaba currently does operate the aircraft this way, I don't believe Pinnacle does either. To move between aircraft at Mesaba is subject to a system bid.

I Don't believe so, but don't quote me. If you are on the 900, I don't think that you can be placed on a 200 leg or trip. I believe there are contractual provisions for this....If you are on one aircraft or the other, that is what you bid and that is what you fly--not like guys that can do a 757 leg, then hop into a 767 kinda thing.

You should be aware that a huge sticking point in PCL negotiations has been the company's desire to implement 200/900 dual-qualification.

The current MEC chair referred to this plan, prior to the defeat of TA1, as a "not if, but when" proposition.

He's right. The 200 and 900 are separate the same way the Saab and the 900 are. The 200, 900, or Saab must be bid into and a line pilot will only be qualified to fly one or the other.

We aren't going to have to worry about it anyway....Delta pilot's are going to make sure we have no more 76-seaters due to the selling of XJ/CZ.

That's correct. There are very big differences between the 200 and 900. Enough that you have to be on your toes to get in a 200 after being on the 900 for any time.

Being dual qualified is not a smart idea at all. The 200 is a lot more work than the 900.

No....No I didn't.

If anyone is going to the meetings in msp or dtw on tuesday or wednesday - please post some cliff notes on here for the rest of us that have to work. Thanks

Much agreed... maybe the -200 rate should be higher then for all that extra work... packs, ignition, bleeds, non-fadec...don't forget that strenuous anti-ice system! I'm sweatin' just thinking about it! :rolleyes:

I am sure pinnacle corp. will phase colgan into mesaba as soon as possible, due to the fact that colgan got such a bad publicity with the press....and that TV special

That would be nice, eh? I know you're kidding but I would dread going from the 900 to the 200 after not seeing it for "x" amount of time and then throw me in it during a 15 hour duty day and snow / thunderstorms.

THAT'S what is not a good idea.

And why would that be a bad thing?

Or not flying the -900 for close to a year, then go into your PC and have them say "Oh, the only sim available is the -900, so you're going to have to use it. Who cares if you're not proficient flying it..."

Not a good idea either.

We used to have mixed pairings with 200 and 700 flying at Mesa (efficiency) in the UAX system, so most of us were able to stay pretty fresh in both (700/900 are very much the same up front). Until mixed equipment pairings happens at Pinnacle, those PCs in the unfamiliar -900 may result in a look similiar to that of a deer shortly before impact with a bumper. :eek:

Type jumping mid-pairing kinda felt like the old CFI days...complex to non-complex, back to complex, then finish the day off with a nice long multi XC... most of you know what I mean. ;)

Hummm
 

Ok, heres the deal...

Colgan takes the Mesaba name....(think Valuejet) and continues to fly turboprops.

Pinnacle takes Mesaba Jets..(gets the 900s they wanted)

Mesaba as it exist today...no longer exists...

Pinnacle will need additional Maint and Crews due to aquiring additional aircraft but I dont forsee any clean "merge" of labor.

Oh, pinnacle gets a DTW hangar and the best CRJ training facility around..

Wow, for a first comment, you flamed out pretty bad......

Care to try again?

Geez.............that was a heck of an explosion. It shook my whole computer.

I had no idea it was someone on their first solo augering in on departure........you could see the mushroom cloud for miles !

Very sad.

You know you're in for a wild post when the first statement is, "Ok, here's the deal...."

Then you look left and see a "1".

The ultimate double whammy.

haha, what he said...

anyone attend in MSP today?

Attend what?

The big group hug with the big wigs.

From what I heard, nothing new. TPs at MesabaColgan, jets at Pinnacle with no time frame, plan or idea of what or how it's gonna be done.

no coronary for uncle phil?

i am dissapoint

have faith... he hasn't dealt with the Mesaba guys that have been on this BS merry go round numerous times before and know the shenanigans and how to respond to it.... I predict, if I have to do so myself, he will be called out and either made to be a liar or blubbering idiot, Becasue I am betting he doesn't have the nuts to admit the gameplan tomorrow.....

Seriously Avroman--if you bring your 'tude into any Pinnacle crewroom (which you undoubtedly will given your track record of acting superior to Pinnacle since you're at XJ)--you're going to be sadly disappointed when you run into a few of our senior pilots who were here when Pinnacle was on the upside of the whipsaw, and your group was the whipping boy...yeah--back when you guys offered the 4 for 1 deal...

Come down off your high horse chief--you're going to have to now that you're flying for what many of your ground ops folks (and pilots) have referred to as "the red-headed stepchild")....

Plenty of folks at 9E have also "been through the merrygo round"--if you bring your wholly-owned superiority complex here, you'll soon realize we have just as many folks who have "been through the merrygo round."

Also, while I'm at it--there are pilots at 9E who were flying Saabs and on "the Merry Go Round" when you guys were on your high horses flying Avros...

Don't act like you have more experience than our pilot group...you don't...and it's in all of our best interests that you give up your superiority complex...

aaahhh Nick thanks for taking the wind out of my sails....i thought the only thing that made me better than you (other than my good looks) was being here when Pinnacle was a wholly owned.....:p:D

Funny how todays wholly owned are yesterdays stepchildren and vice versa, and yesterdays bottom feeder is todays place to be and vice versa....but people on high horses and in glass houses tend to forget that.

An excellent reason to just be a pleasant person, realize that success in this industry is largely due to chance, and be aware that being a d!ck not only doesn't improve your equipment, base, or W-2 but can keep you from ever going somewhere better.

But don't take my word for it. Ask any management pilot.

^

I don't think that's what he/she meant by their post. I can assure you that my fears and that of others that I've spoken with directly revolve around what those who are in charge and what their top secret plans for us (all three airlines) are. It's the unknown that I and those I've talked to are considering, as is everyone else...

What you have above could be the outsider's perspective to an insider issue, moving forward we'll all get to know each other's business. I at Mesaba only know Pinnacle from what I've been told first, second, and/or third hand, so I don't pretend to be an expert. The same may be true of those in the reversed situation, I don't know. Therefore, I don't think it's fair to flame in this situation.

For what it's worth...since we're all in this pile together afterall

You think he had never been called out before? You think there have never been pilots at shareholders meetings who have done this before? It really helped our case, maybe we didn't have the special "Mesaba guy" touch. I hope you're sucessful, but don't count on it. I feel for you guys, you don't even know whats coming...