Have you looked at RAH year end filing. Those 717's were returned early and RAH paid a penalty to return them early, they were not returned because the leases were up. They were returned because they were replaced. Why do you think people at Midwest are so angry. Boeing wanted to cut the lease rates in half, they did not want those aircraft back. They would have been much cheaper to operate than the E170/190. But they could not get rid of the pilots unless they sent the 717 back. That's why so many have ill feelings.

Everybody takes a chance on their career in the hopes that their airline will survive. When Midwest goes down the way it did(25 years), not because of being bankrupt, but because of greed between CEOs who are corrupt, that tends to stir the emotions a bit.

Come on, this screwed up process was no accident.

Exactly... The management teams at RAH and Midwest are the enemy. I agree with you 100%, but why do a certain few insist that this was the RAH pilots doing? The reality is that BB and pals didn't want to pay you guys your mainline rates and kicked you guys to the curb and paid to do it by ending the leases early. I guess they figured it would be cheaper to pay the early termination fees on the Boeings and pay us regional guys to fly your mainline routes than to keep you guys on. Its horrible and no one here is gonna tell you otherwise. But the fact remains that this is how it went down and besides maybe quitting (which still wouldn't have worked because they would have just hired onto the RAH cert.) there wasn't a damn thing any of us could have done to save your jobs. So again how is this the RAH pilot's fault? Almost all of us here just wanted to get our time, try to make things a little better, and move onto greener pastures. Yet now we have the Rats of the world making empty threats about how he's gonna hurt us as bad as we hurt him. HUH?? Grow up Rat. We all know you got the shaft but place the blame where it belongs. No one that I know wanted any of this BS.

BB accelerated the return of those leased aircraft after RAH purchased Midwest. Some were already on the way back before acquisition but BB paid penalties to return them faster.

BB is a POS. I think he looked at the Midwest fleet and pilot group as a liability. Getting the Midwest aircraft off property prior to SLI benefited the company in several ways. His decision was great for the bottom line but terrible for the Midwest pilots and I'm sure he would love to see a small percentage of that pilot group join the party after SLI. As I said before the true enemy is management.

So to answer you directly the reason I accused you of slanderous flame bait is that Midwest did bring aircraft to the operation but BB parked them ASAP. The reason I called out Rat is that he is crazy enough to think the RAH pilots were in on the deal with Management. He has not accepted the fact that RAH management does what they want and listen to no one else that dissents. Just go ask Sean Menke what he thinks about BB and company. I believe he cast his vote on the RAH management team when he left.

I'll tell you why I hold the RAH pilot group in contempt. They did absolutly nothing to try and stop this other than say "There's nothing we can do. It's our flying now. What are we suppose to do?" All while they are climbing into replacement aircraft painted in Midwest colors. The idiots on here talk about how we bring nothing to the table. I bring 20+ years to the table. It's gone now and the continued silence from this spineless RAH pilot group says it all. They don't know the pain and suffering a lot of good people are going through right now. They don't feel the pain of families having to sell all they have just trying to survive and hoping to come back to a job that was stolen from them. I just hope we can toss as many of them out into the streets as they have of us. Let them sit on the outside and wonder what happened.

So the "spineless" RAH group did nothing to save your jobs. At which point did you take any job action of your own?

The Midwest guys (ALPA) did the same thing that the RAH guys (IBT) did. Nothing... There was nothing that could be done or said to save the likes of Rat and his buddies at Midwest. It was and continues to be an awful situation. If Rat wants some kind of official press release from the RAH union stating that they do agree that its a horrible situation for the Midwest guys then I'm sure they could work something out but to most its pretty obvious that no one wanted this to happen. Rat are you really saying that if the IBT came out and said they didn't agree with it but there was nothing they could do then you wouldn't hold any grudges?

I guess the Midwest pilots by NOT taking the very small amount of money offered to us to fly those aircraft, the very same aircraft RAH currently flies for the exact small amount of money. The Midwest group did not want to continue the race to food stamps for all, so yes we took a stand. That's why all those jobs were outsourced to RAH. Because they are willing to do others flying for much less.

I wonder, would you call that job action.

Bear...you seem like a reasonable guy. You state that we are "willing" to do others flying for much less. As you are no doubt aware, we don't have a choice who we do flying for. At times on here, people were basically suggesting that we do an illegal job action. That obviously wasn't going to happen. We're in our 3rd year of negotiations and are/will be desperately trying to get a contract that reflects the changes that BB has done with this "regional" airline. Were you and your fellow Midwest pilots royally screwed in this situation? Absolutely. Do you have every right to be ****ed? Absolutely.

I sincerely wish you nothing but the best and that you find MUCH greener pastures than what BB is providing here.

The pilots I have encountered at RAH all seem to imply that their hands are tied. Bedford and Heller take their share of the blame as well as the Teamsters.

What is frustrating is all the talk of "just wait til we negotiate our next contract, then you'll see." I have heard RAH pilots talk about how they have fought the good fight, but I have never seen positive results.

The only conclusion I can come up with is you are waiting for the Midwest and Frontier pilots to show up and fight your fight for you. I sure hope we are treated fairly during the SLI.