Flyby1206

Right, that was my understanding that since ALPA negotiated the contract you would be operating under the benefits ALPA created. Does the XJT contract require all certificates to be merged? Or just seniority lists? It would be possible to keep a separate Skywest operating certificate with non-union employees on the same seniority list as ALPA members. If you want to transfer in/out of a certificate you would lose/gain union membership. Or the company could just say there is no mechanism for you to transfer from one certificate to another and keep Skywest separate from the unionized ASA/XJT while having them all on the same seniority list, similar to how Republic and Shuttle America are on the same seniority list but I dont think they let you guys switch companies, correct?

rickair7777

This only applies to those who work at a union company but choose to not be union members. More of a personal statement than a real economic choice because you pay anyway.

In the case of XJT/ASA/SKW...

XJT may be able to get a court to require an integrated seniority list but XJT will not be able to force the SKW pilot group to become ALPA against their will.

A seniority list is not a union, and there is no language in the XJT contract which implies that a merged pilot group would have to join a union (that would not be enforceable on the non-union group anyway since they were never party to the agreement between XJT alpa and management). You can easily have a virtual seniority list allowing movement between carriers while keeping the groups separate in all other respects.

Does the XJT contract require that a merged pilot group have identical pay scales, work rules, and benefits? I doubt it.


Having nothing to do with XJT's contract it would still be possible for XJT/ASA to make a "common carrier" petition to the NMB in order to force SKW on board. But the standards for meeting this criteria are well known and totally under the control of INC...

- If INC creates a virtual merger by running all three airlines from one SOC, and does not keep the routes seperate that would support common carrier.

- But if INC keeps the airlines as separate financial entities, with their own training, routes, SOCs, etc a common carrier petition would not work. There's plenty of precedent on this and INC is probably smart enough to avoid triggering it.

JDFlyer

Don't you mean how many of those pilot DO I know? I still work there and I know many, many, many of them. Enough to know how the majority of Skywest pilots feel about ALPO.

As to your comment about it being an "easy slam dunk vote for ALPA", all I have to say to that is . . . . Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!! You brought a tear to my eye!

By all means, please feel free to spend lots and lots of your pay check, I mean Union Dues, trying to bring your version of religion, I mean ALPO to us. The free food you guys and gals feed us is always appreciated.

I know you and I go back and forth on this ALPA union issue from time to time. Please know my comments are meant in good humor as much as anything.

Nevets

If SKW wanted three certificates and one list, I'm confident the XJT MEC would be more than happy to accommodate that without a problem. RAH has this although there are some hurdles for the pilots to go from one airline to another. As for your other idea, SKW shot that idea down two years ago as well. I'm not sure how willing the XJT MEC would be on that again anyways.

Unless you know how each and every one of them would vote, NO ONE knows how it would turn out especially with the new voting rules where apathy is not used against the unions' disadvantage. Even if you know many, I doubt you have a statistically valid amount of people from the different demographics to come up with a valid guess. Don't get me wrong. Neither does ALPA. My point is that no one knows until the votes are cast.

My comment about it being a slam dunk was in reference to a vote of all three pilot groups together, not just SKW pilots. You start with 900 at SKW, and 2400 ALPA members at XJT, and 1600 ALPA members at ASA. Even if ALPA loses 1/3 of the people at XJT and SKW, ALPA still wins

I'll be more than happy to have more dues money used to have lunch with any SKW pilot about the industry, profession, ALPA, and unions general.

iPilot

This is quickly turning into a ****ing contest between Nevets and JDFlyer. The fact is union or not, ALPA or not, having even 2 pilot groups under Inc. is not acceptable for any of us. I understand SkyWest'ers misgivings about going union, that's a big reason why many of you went to SKW in the first place. Just understand that XJT and ASA's unions are the way they are because of the pilots at those airlines. ALPA has very little to do with policy at the individual airlines, that's our responsibility. If you want to make SkyWest a better place you need to get involved and that requires organization.

If you feel so strongly about not being ALPA that doesn't mean you shouldn't unionize at all, as mentioned there are many options out there including IBT and in-house. However, that's something we need to do together after this merger mess is behind us. Ironically enough regardless of your affiliation the union itself operates essentially identically with the same group of people running it (your democratically appointed representatives).

Anyway, the point is we can do this the easy way or the hard way. Thumping chests about pro or anti union isn't going to get us anywhere. XJT and ASA will do everything they can to enforce their contract and XJT's scope language for their own protection. I suggest that SkyWest'ers at least prepare for the inevitable fight and probable success of XJT's contract. At this point there really isn't much else you can do.

What I can say is if we all want the best for all pilots, the best thing we can do is stand as unified as possible in front of management. Not in a "us vs you" way, but in a professional and serious way to tell them we want to make this work and we want a fair deal. That's really not too much to ask.

RockyBoy

I've worked for a company that had an independent union, one that had no union, and two that were ALPA. I'm not an ALPA cheerleader, but your dues go ALOT further when you are with ALPA than they ever will with an independent union. I also won't ever work for a non-union airline again. I think the pilots of ASA/XJT/SKYW would be stupid to do anything but fight for one list and representation from ALPA under one CBA. ALPA has it's problems, but it's the best union out there when it comes to what you get for the dues you pay.

johnpeace

serious?

Skywest, Inc is going to merge ASA with Xjet.

How much energy do you want to spend fighting that reality?

iPilot

A LOT. I don't think you realize how important this is. Also, you don't realize how much legal clout XJTALPA has in this fight. SkyWest Inc. may hold all the cards in your neck of the woods but far from it in ours.

TonyWilliams

So, if XJT ALPA loses this battle, then are we to presume that you don't have much legal clout. Or, SkyWest INC now holds all the cards in your neck of the woods, too?

johnpeace

<Yawn>

Dude...let it go...they wouldn't have done it this way if they weren't certain of a 'win'. SKYW isn't going into legal battles with labor unions that it can't win.

I talked to one of the ASA MEC guys today and he indicated this wasn't even an issue...let it go already. You got bought by ASA.