That is flatly wrong, I heard the entire call, if this deal does not close there is no new CPA, as XJT already has a 7 year CPA in place with CAL that survives any merger, it has 5 years left for 210 aircraft, and I believe we have about 222 on property now. In addition, ASA could not find 210 ERJ's or CRJ's, 2500 pilots with 1500 hrs and build the infrastructure XJT has at CAL in 10 years, more less by January. Ask CHQ, they tried and couldn't get 30 airplane to work well in 3 years. This deal is not getting done without XJT, and JA and CAL know it, or they would have never signed us for 7 more years, would have cancelled our CPA and terminated us from property 12 months later, SKY would have had a CPA 2 years ago if they thought they could do it without XJT.

I think they were talking about a different deal........UAL/CAL. If SKW purchases XJT they will have a 10 year CPA whether UAL/CAL is completed or not. Either the new United will be buying the capacity or the current Continental.

Just remember, Nevets, while you guys are chasing windmills, nothing is getting done on the SLI and JPWA. I think we should get those done, then go after the SkyWest pilots. Maybe even junk ALPA, start an in-house union, THEN go after the SkyWest pilots.

THAT would be much wiser than hitching our wagon to ALPA. This is our golden opportunity to leave them and their inherent conflicts of interest behind. But instead, you want to get them the SkyWest pilots and entrench our position with them.

Fighting to get skywest part of this merger is a futile attempt. Even most die-hard alpa supporters don't think it will happen. What JA did was legal and will hold up in court. Btw why do you want skywest to join the onelist when everyone but a few dozen don't want to join?

I don't really feel a "strong" move in merging all three by XJT MEC, they talk about it but nothing about do or die, I think it is going to be a quick look/see by ALPA and if it is going to hold every thing up it is going to be dropped for some extra $$$ in the new CBA, the effect will be that ASA guys (who already have better bens then SKY) will just become more clear. My guess is ALPA has its own plans to get on property at SKY in 2012. Hate to say it but I don't think they want 7000 regional pilots on one list, then they may have to actually acknowledge we exist!!!!

And nothing will get done until this issue is resolved. That is the way it should be. I see no conflict of interest. We all want what is best for the profession. I think we can all agree that the cluster that regionals are is not the best for our profession.

Sorry to tell you but this is not about you or other Skywest pilots. Its about your management using you to whipsaw other pilot groups. Whether it will happen or not, I don't know but I certainly hope we don't just roll over on it.

Have you talked to your rep? When I talked to mine, he said there was a strong feeling of wanting to one list or nothing. Of course this is before the meeting with JA and the attorneys. Hopefully they will try to enforce our contract regardless.

You say ALPA has plans to organize SKW in 2012 but also say they don't want one list of 7000 pilots? Which is it? I think you have misconceptions about ALPA on this issue.

I've heard directly from an ALPA rep that we MAY have to fit some of the bill to pay for the ALPA lawyers. Is that normal? I for one think that is complete BS. Doesn't ALPA have millions upon millions of dollars? Why do we have to shell out money from our own pocket?

Because they pay there little worker bee's 65K a year to send out magazines and junk mail.. Yet they support $19 a hour for a pilot!!!

TSA, GO Jet, Compass

Mesa and Freedumb



XJT does not want anything to do with scenarios like those created at those two companies. Whether it happens or not is irrelevant, I think we can all agree that one list and scope language that means something at the regional level is very important.

ALPA legal is already paid for through our dues. Maybe he meant that "we" may have to pay for some of it through the MECs SMRA account.

Its being honored with merger of xjt and asa since asa is buying xjt. Skywest has no connection in this what so ever and It won't hold up in court. Berkshire Hathaway is a perfect example, they own many other companies that buy and sell other companies under them. This is no different, the precedent has been set and a judge will look at it.

Mesa and Freedom were different than this as well as Tsa and gojet. Skywest has been around the longest and hasn’t been used to whipsaw anyone.

Skywest has no connection in this what so ever...

Skywest...hasn't been used to whipsaw anyone.

Just to let you know, saying this enough times doesn't make it true. Just saying...

I asked you before when skywest whipsawed anyone and you have yet to answer just the usual alpo talking points. Yet asa has grown more since the buyout than skywest has.

Well, I've pointed it out numerous times but I will quote an ASA pilot who explains it better than I.

"When we (ASA) were in negotiations, they dangled 15 CR9's to make us sign a concessionary contract. This was about Feb of 2006. When the union wouldn't bite, less than two weeks after the memo announcing the aircraft, they told us SKW would be getting all of them. We bit our lips and held fast. SKW did get those aircraft. Some discussion over whether we were ever really going to get them to begin with. But all they had to do was change the registrations, and they did.

Later, they threatened us with the infamous option 4 which was they would transfer all our aircraft to SKW and we would disappear. They actually did start this. When we closed SLC, they were slated to keep 13 of our CR7's. Due to costs, down time associated with transferring the mx program from one certificate to the other, they only kept 3."

And now I'll repost what I've already posted earlier.

Anyways, XJT has already been whipsawd by CAL with the helps of JA. That is why we were decimated. CAL told our CEO to either give them the cpa SKW had negotiated or get the 12 months notice. The cpa SKW negotiated with CAL not only included synergy cost savings but also took into consideration a 16% paycut JA wanted to give us in order to bring us into parity with SKW pilot compensation so that we can be cost competative when CAL put all 205 A/C up for bid again in 12 months. JA said himself his intention was to put up three bids for those 205 A/C. One from XJT, one from ASA, and one from SKW...but it was up to us if we wanted to be cost competitive. That on top of the fact that he was planning on taking 35 of XJT A/C and transferring them to SKW for their pilots to fly while furloughing 700 of ours and giving them preferential interviews at SKW.

The answer was provided, but you ignored it:

Why not start with the first CRJ 900s Skywest, Inc was allocated from Delta. Those were originally slated for ASA when Skywest, Inc made the purchase. Jerry told our pilot group point blank that if we did not give in on instructor pay he would award them to Skywest Airlines instead. We didn't give in and we didn't get the 900s. Is that not whipsaw?

While we voted on and got PBS, there was always the threat that if we did not reduce our costs compared to other pilot groups, we would not grow. Skywest Airlines has one of the lowest cost pilot groups out there and you can bet that Skywest, Inc is not going to miss out on an opportunity to grow!

What about health care? While I'm a fan of HSAs, they aren't for everyone and Skywest Inc will really push hard for a change in the next contract pointing to the fact that you did not have a choice.

That's three good examples without really having to think about it!!

ASA hasn't gained any aircraft from this - Skywest, Inc is simply being business savvy and making good deals to utilize existing assets. If you factor in the ATRs that ASA lost, we're at a net of 8 airplanes by your numbers! Over the same time period, Skywest was allocated 25 700s and 900s that Delta had originally allocated for ASA.

Again, I think you have a very skewed view of whipsaw. It's a lot easier to say there's no such thing when you are the tool being used.

They can just raid the MEC's LVBT/MLD account.

That's the "Las Vegas Bar Tab/Midget Lap Dance" account. I'm sure there's plenty of funds available there.:p

ALPA's rules prohibit using union attorneys or union funds for a merger. Too easy for the union to get sued if you don't like the result. If you want a lawyer, you have to hire one and pass an assessment among your pilot group to pay for it.

ASA MEC has retained the firm that handled the NWA merger for Delta.

The midget leprechaun on the bar was a real class act... :rolleyes:

And speaking of Vegas, my sources tell me a sit down was had yesterday between the ALPA chairmen, Brad Holt, and Jerry Atkin in LAS to discuss this issue.

What would happen if Jerry threw in the towel and agreed to a three way, but with concessions in return? Hmmm.

Dang, everyone has pointed out several examples and you still don't
Understand that Skywest has, indeed, whipsawed ASA v Skywest?
Maybe you should learn a little history
Before you talk of things you know nothing about.

According to the XJT MEC this is a fact! No rumors yet on what was said???

De-Nile ain't just a river in Eygpt. Somebody is continually getting proved wrong, but can't admit he's wrong. :rolleyes:

Facts are facts Slaphappy.

I know that ALPA legal is reviewing our contract language and the Merger Agreement so they can give their opinion to the XJT MEC. I also know that the XJT MEC has retained a legal firm from DC. There is money in the SMRA account so I hope they use that before assessing the pilots.

If he wants concessions, PBS, etc, fine. That all has to be negotiated for in a joint contract anyways. That is where those deals should be made.

What uniforms should the new ASA/XJT wear? I think we should go with the gold and black.

I don't care as long as we don't get those gay embroidered wings...

Under the RLA management can not impose a union on a labor group. Jerry will let it happen if and when it does.

Getting pretty sick of everyone putting Jerry up on a pedestal.

seriously... it screams im too lazy to put on real metal wings.

So you're saying that Inc hasn't walked our new HC plan over to ASA stating that if they don't do the same they're cost will be to high to compete? Or how about some of our 900's being painted with ASA on the side during their 07 negotiations and then repaint with SKW and shipped off to ATL with SKW pilots right after they closed down ASA in SLC? Or how about during our last Pay Package vote back in 07 when they told us our wages needed to lower than ASA in order to maintain a competitive advantage over them, then they explained that if our #’s were 2% lower than ASA’s they were actually the same cause we don’t pay dues? Just to name a few…….but since we’re not in the “know” then we don’t know how much more has occurred behind closed doors.

Remember that if one point is used against the other no matter how large or small, they are attempting a whipsaw. It has happened and it will happen again.

It wouldnt be forced. If all three are to be merged it will be put to a vote.

I was responding to someone that posted something earlier in the thread.

If skywest pilots vote yes for ALPA, ALPA national will then apply for common carrier status, which is when we will all merge.

This is nothing to do with Jerry. Someone of you guys have to catch up on some basic knowledge of ALPA and the RLA.

This is complete BS.

As far as i know SLI is actively being worked on at both companies. It is my understanding that they are looking at the offer from skywest. If ASA and XJT accept the offer the SLI will happen shortly after with the parts of the offer rolling into the new contract. From what i am hearing the offer isnt bad but we give up our old scope clause and any chance of including skywest in sli.

I like the idea of an in house union but it does take quite a bit of initiative, money, and time to set up. If we voted out ALPA i would almost guarantee that the current ALPA leadership would lead an ALPA drive as soon as they legally could. Realistically i dont think we could "create" a union but i could see us joining another in house union.

Fact Check. ALPA policy now requires the joint contract to be negotiated before the SLI. So it's going to be a little while. Also, the XJT MEC has already agreed to move forward without forcing a three way.

They haven't agreed to it yet. They are still waiting to see the offer for the combined contract. They have NOT signed away their right to try and force a three way with our current scope clause. You are right that they are definitely leaning towards accepting the deal but it is not set in stone yet.