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Originally Posted by indapit
(Post 894459)
You keep the flying going into opentime, not allowing pilots to take themselves down to 4 days off would force the company to staff. correctly. I do not see how limiting picking up flying would create inefficent pairings. It would force the opposite. It would force more efficient pairings to get more flying covered with less people. The same amount of flying will go into opentime.
So you are asking me if a person living outside their means should take a second job and be unsafe, or work more and be unsafe. How about they stop liviing beyond their means. No one forced them to make their current wage. Most FOs at 9E have been hired after 1999 so they haven't taken a pay cut. The should have know the current wage when they were hired, and if they didn't, that is again their own fault. In addition, you all are getting work rule gains and pay raises so the need to work so much more should be greatly reduced. Like before, the reason we restrict ourselves is to protect ourselves from the people who make poor decisions. If you made a poor decision to take a job that does not pay your bills, you shouldn't make another poor decision to work down to four days off a month either. |
Originally Posted by Airsupport
(Post 894429)
isn't that what we are doing? all the snap backs to your contract are going to be back in December right? I dont see your negotiators doing worse than that. Remember you guys have people on the negotiating committee too.
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Originally Posted by higney85
(Post 894478)
Personally, I believe to budget within guarantee pay and anything over that is gravy. Every once in a while I can more than understand a car repair or other expense that would tempt someone to pick up a trip- especially when it's being offered up at 200%. The union cannot actively manage the finances of pilots, that being said we can ensure that all avenues are explored to allow pilots to make up their own minds. I just cannot figure out why pilots would want limitations against THEM from their own union in the arena of making additional money voluntarily. I just don't get it personally. The open time restriction covers the PILOT GROUP from managements inept staffing, but at the expense of high line values for all. By limiting open time to 2% (or insert small number here) the company cannot be forced to change staffing. The pilot group will simply see 75 hour lines in "slow" seasons and 85-90 hour lines in peak seasons. At least that's how it works at 9E and by the announced management structure of the PNCL corp umbrella post-merger the same folks will be trying to use the same philosophy. It may be helpful for the mesaba folks to actually talk to the pinnacle folks about the culture and staffing model, because the end result does not appear to resemble the current mesaba managerial structure.
Again, there are limitations to protect the pilots who make bad decisions. If there was not ceiling on your aircraft, how high would you take it? Everyone's answer would be different so where is the one level of safety. If your current gaurantee is 75 and everyone will get at least 10% raises, how much more money do you really need. Your new guarantee is 82 hours now. I think this may be more about greed than safety. |
Originally Posted by indapit
(Post 894511)
There is a big difference between picking up down to ten days off (current XJ language) and picking up down to 4 days off.
Again, there are limitations to protect the pilots who make bad decisions. If there was not ceiling on your aircraft, how high would you take it? Everyone's answer would be different so where is the one level of safety. If your current gaurantee is 75 and everyone will get at least 10% raises, how much more money do you really need. Your new guarantee is 82 hours now. I think this may be more about greed than safety. |
Originally Posted by higney85
(Post 894513)
You are turning this towards me personally, that is far from my situation in being involved in this whole thing. I never have said 4 days off, that would be insane on top of not knowing how you could work that many days and not be 30/7 or 100/mo.
So if 4 is insane, what about 6, 8, 9.....what is the limit then. Without a limit, pilots will take advantage and make bad decisions. Again it is about safety, not about punishing pilots. |
Originally Posted by indapit
(Post 894525)
Leaving it without a restriction would allow for pilots to do so. How hard would it be for a reserve pilot to pick up down to 4 days off? Not very tough if done at the beginning of the month. A turn here and there and they could be down to 4 days off very quickly.
So if 4 is insane, what about 6, 8, 9.....what is the limit then. Without a limit, pilots will take advantage and make bad decisions. Again it is about safety, not about punishing pilots. |
Originally Posted by higney85
(Post 894537)
Ask a pinnacle reserve how much they work...
If you add the flying before scheduling does......then scheduling is limited....not you. |
Originally Posted by indapit
(Post 894543)
If you add the flying before scheduling does......then scheduling is limited....not you.
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It's not the unions job to protect pilots from being stupid.
If you don't want opentime, don't pick it up. Are we really discussing this? |
Originally Posted by Avroman
(Post 894479)
No, everything does not come back in December. We would still need one more year of snapbacks for the flight pay to be restored. (mind you we have lost that pay we should have had over this time for good) We should be at 1.75 currently for per diem (due to go to 1.80), right now we are at 1.55, to snap to 1.65 December 1. We have lost build up reserve pay with PBS, we have lost many other things with PBS, things the company has no intention of EVER giving back with snapbacks. There are other things as well that aren't fully snaping back, but you get the idea.
The Dec 1rst SnapBack takes pay to the 2004 contract +4 after DOS point. (I'm just adding info to your above post) XJ got it's ass handed to it in bankruptcy, but we have to look at the best contract we can get from this point forward, can we realistically expect much more than the Dec 1rst SnapBack rates? I don't think so. And don't forget about the $20,000 or so put into your 401k because of the bankruptcy claim. PBS is not going away, I understand it helps the company, sometimes you have to give something. I like it better for bidding anyway. |
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