FifthElement

No, people are just calling you out for your demonstration of general ignorance...

In your original rant, you implied that "foreigners" were taking many aviation jobs from "regular Americans", even resulting in some furloughs...patently false. As pointed out by others, many Americans are actually working abroad as expats, and far outnumber any green card holders working in aviation.

You also implied that flying jobs were currently being offered to any non-citizen who desired to work in the U.S., demonstrating a lack of knowledge of your own country's immigration laws. FYI the legal immigration process is no cake walk...if someone has jumped through the hoops, they most definitely have the legal right to work here.

The Dominican

What is a regular American? I had the honor to witness my wife's ceremony when she became a citizen it was awe inspiring to see people from all over the world there with their traditional dresses and speaking probably 20 different languages, the person administering the oath started mentioning all the countries that were present and people started to raise their hands as their country was mentioned, after the ceremony was finished then he said "Now all Americans raise their hands" the place erupted in thunderous cheer and they all raised their hands and started jumping with joy, if that is not what this country is about and those are not regular Americans I don't know what is.

But I do know one thing, you Mr. Flyerfly do not get what this country is really about

RJSAviator76

The original poster stated Foreign pilots have nothing to do with furloughs. The seniority system does. If you're (un)fortunate to be on the bottom of some seniority list, and the company furloughs, getting furloughed has nothing to do with foreign pilots, but rather the furloughee's date of hire.

In other words... the original poster's anger is misplaced.

Be Realistic

Its amazing how a little bit of knowledge is dangerous. Let’s look at the initial post first:

US Citizens – have either been born here or naturalized. Either way if you go back a few generations or in a lot of cases, just one generation you will find a parent who emigrated from another country. Or in the later case, they have done what the US government has asked them to do to obtain citizenship.

Stealing jobs from brothers and sisters? As already stated, should we all close the boarders to prevent flow out as well as flow in? How dare Emirates come here recruiting!

Legal Permanent Residents – Are just that. Again the government has stated how to go about the process, and those that have followed it surely can reap the rewards. Now if you don’t like that we need to start a debate as to how many are removed along with their offspring which means most of the US apart from Native Americans.

Oh, and should the Statue of Liberty be returned along with the Colossus “Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free”

Now onto working in Europe

The countries of the EU have many work visas similar to the USA which have two subtle differences. Firstly there are no caps in most cases, and secondly if you have a job offer, the company who offers you the job can sponsor you for the visa. Some airlines and other companies have different requirements, but European anti discrimination laws keep that fairly well checked.

As for getting the JAA license, here we go again.

If you want to fly in the USA as the holder of an ATP, regardless of your qualifications, you will need to take the same exam a low hour pilot has to take and take a flight test for that license. If you want to work in Europe the requirement for a high time pilot is the same as a low time pilot. You can’t blame the system. It is there to prevent people who learn 900 questions without having a clue as to why it is the right answer from getting a position. If you are that good a pilot and that knowledgeable, you should have no problems passing the exams, and have no issues with taking them so that you can go and earn $50,000 per year as a first year FO on a Q-400 or even $100,000 as a fist year 737 FO. There was a Massive difference between the requirements for the Aer Lingus job openings between FAA and JAA rated pilots. I wonder why??

But I will concede that the mentality is that if you have paid your dues in the USA, then it should be easy for you to get one of those jobs in Europe or Asia. Until we get past that stupid saying, things will never change.

willflyforcash

It is much easier for a citizen of just about any other country to get a job in America, than an American to get a job in just about any other country.

The USA is very generous with permitting foreign work and make the process relatively easy, compared to other countries.

I know from experience.

seafeye

Unless you have a valid work permit for the USA you will never be able to fly here. Unlike Africa/middle east/asia where you can be an expat and land a tax free flying job. Your post was wrong. Yes there are visa/work permits given out for farming jobs/hotel industry because americans are not willing to do the jobs. NAFTA allows professionals to travel more freely accross the CDN and Mexican border but still have to apply with the INS.
Airline pilots are not part of NAFTA because you do not need a university degree to work as a pilot. Therefore it doesn't meet the requirements of a professional job.

JayHub

this was my reaction to the above:-

Colnago

I find these statements always to be vague. Care to share the experience?

Getting a work permit is far from easy in the US. The US is VERY restrictive when it comes to work permits and even more for permanent residency. Otherwise, you wouldn't have as much illegal immigration from the southern border.

Flightnurse

And I know from the experience of obtaining a US Perminent visa how difficult and expensive it is. I was fortunate becuse there was a major nursing shortage, and as a professional I was needed in the USA. I knew Canadian MDs who could not get work visas becuse their specialties were not in demand. I had my US resident Alien status before I even started flight training otherwise I would not be here as a pilot.

The Dominican

True, but that is what makes this country the greatest integrated social experiment in the history of humanity and that shouldn't be criticized but rather praised.

What I find Ironic is the indignation that some are expressing here because back up a few years and the American ex pat pilot population world wide was negligible; take Japan for example, when I started working here 4 years ago you would be hard pressed to find a single American pilot here but now I don't remember when was the last time that I met a new pilot from anywhere else but the US. But now that the resumes are numbered in the thousand world wide all of a sudden there are many cries of injustice due to being discriminated against. Funny how things come and bite us in the derriere because prior to 9/11 any employment abroad was unthinkable and not up to our high standards and now we are even taking jobs in third world countries and complaining as to why the red carpet isn't rolled out for us.