Foreign pilots
09-28-2010, 06:55 PM
#1
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: A320 Right
Posts: 219
Foreign pilots
Would someone please educate me as to why people with foreign citizenship and passports are able to work for airlines based in the United States when in many countries in Europe and elsewhere it is impossible to get a job without citizenship? Why are foreign pilots getting jobs in the United States while my U.S. born brothers and sisters are furloughed and on the streets. It's not a race debate, its an ethics debate. I'm not trying to be a bigot, but I am trying to understand......
09-28-2010, 07:00 PM
#2
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2009
Posts: 645
Why would the US government grant work permits/Visas to the Air Lingus pilots when thousands of qualified Americans are on the street? And you are right, without European citizenship I don't think you can fly there unless the aircraft has a US registration.
09-28-2010, 07:01 PM
#3
Che Guevara
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Posts: 6,408
Long story short...
1) The United States has the largest aviation industry.
2) Flight training here is much cheaper
3) There has never been protection for American jobs no matter what industry you've looked at
4) Other countries want to grow their aviation industry and want to hire from within
5) Other countries are not (were not) as financially advanced as the US and thus need to keep those jobs to boost their economies.
6) Those countries are allowed to discriminate based on all things we are not.
1) The United States has the largest aviation industry.
2) Flight training here is much cheaper
3) There has never been protection for American jobs no matter what industry you've looked at
4) Other countries want to grow their aviation industry and want to hire from within
5) Other countries are not (were not) as financially advanced as the US and thus need to keep those jobs to boost their economies.
6) Those countries are allowed to discriminate based on all things we are not.
09-28-2010, 08:33 PM
#4
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2009
Position: ERJ145 Captain
Posts: 473
Flyerfly:
What does that make the thousand of expats flying in the middle east, Latin America, Africa, and Asia? You can't have it both ways. It can't be ok for our guys to go overseas, but then flash the foreign card here in the States.
So here's an idea; how about reciprocating agreements instead of this foreign pilot narrow minded bull**** some of guys keep throwing around? If you're unhappy with the current arrangement write your congressmen, write the administrator, write your reps assuming you work for an airline. As I said before, you can't have it both ways, you can't knock foreign pilots for coming over here and applying to fly here as legal residents, while at the same time saying is ok for the thousands of expats to work overseas.
What does that make the thousand of expats flying in the middle east, Latin America, Africa, and Asia? You can't have it both ways. It can't be ok for our guys to go overseas, but then flash the foreign card here in the States.
So here's an idea; how about reciprocating agreements instead of this foreign pilot narrow minded bull**** some of guys keep throwing around? If you're unhappy with the current arrangement write your congressmen, write the administrator, write your reps assuming you work for an airline. As I said before, you can't have it both ways, you can't knock foreign pilots for coming over here and applying to fly here as legal residents, while at the same time saying is ok for the thousands of expats to work overseas.
09-28-2010, 08:39 PM
#5
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 711
Would someone please educate me as to why people with foreign citizenship and passports are able to work for airlines based in the United States when in many countries in Europe and elsewhere it is impossible to get a job without citizenship? Why are foreign pilots getting jobs in the United States while my U.S. born brothers and sisters are furloughed and on the streets. It's not a race debate, its an ethics debate. I'm not trying to be a bigot, but I am trying to understand......
edit: reference page 2...http://www.be-lufthansa.com/fileadmi...LH_E_Pilot.pdf
09-28-2010, 08:47 PM
#6
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 711
Flyerfly:
What does that make the thousand of expats flying in the middle east, Latin America, Africa, and Asia? You can't have it both ways. It can't be ok for our guys to go overseas, but then flash the foreign card here in the States.
So here's an idea; how about reciprocating agreements instead of this foreign pilot narrow minded bull**** some of guys keep throwing around? If you're unhappy with the current arrangement write your congressmen, write the administrator, write your reps assuming you work for an airline. As I said before, you can't have it both ways, you can't knock foreign pilots for coming over here and applying to fly here as legal residents, while at the same time saying is ok for the thousands of expats to work overseas.
What does that make the thousand of expats flying in the middle east, Latin America, Africa, and Asia? You can't have it both ways. It can't be ok for our guys to go overseas, but then flash the foreign card here in the States.
So here's an idea; how about reciprocating agreements instead of this foreign pilot narrow minded bull**** some of guys keep throwing around? If you're unhappy with the current arrangement write your congressmen, write the administrator, write your reps assuming you work for an airline. As I said before, you can't have it both ways, you can't knock foreign pilots for coming over here and applying to fly here as legal residents, while at the same time saying is ok for the thousands of expats to work overseas.
09-28-2010, 10:03 PM
#7
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: EMB-145 FO
Posts: 266
Would someone please educate me as to why people with foreign citizenship and passports are able to work for airlines based in the United States when in many countries in Europe and elsewhere it is impossible to get a job without citizenship? Why are foreign pilots getting jobs in the United States while my U.S. born brothers and sisters are furloughed and on the streets. It's not a race debate, its an ethics debate. I'm not trying to be a bigot, but I am trying to understand......
09-28-2010, 11:24 PM
#8
Gets Weekend Reserve
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,696
I don't have a beef with foreign pilots.
Want someone to blame for thousands of your brothers furloughed? Blame the seniority system. That's really why they're furloughed. Has nothing to do with foreigners.
No US airline, to my knowledge, has a clause that will provide sponsorship to a foreign pilot. That foreigner has to have permanent residency in the US (green card) at the minimum. If he/she does... so what? They have every legal right to work in the US, just like you do...
However, they cannot:
- hold security clearance... green card holders cannot be FFDO's for example.
- hold an elected office until they become citizens, and they can never be the president.
- vote.
- be commissioned officers in the military - they can however enlist.
Also, before every simulator training session, even green card holders have to obtain TSA clearance, unlike US citizens.
As for griping about JAA/EASA and how it's a PITA to obtain their license, well.... you may have a point there - though if you have residency in the EU, and if you're typed, they can validate your license and you can fly with them for up to a year on a validated FAA license, though at some point you'll need to convert it to full JAA license.
Take it easy bud... lots of us are living/flying and making a decent living abroad because we refuse to be paid peanuts in the US.
Want someone to blame for thousands of your brothers furloughed? Blame the seniority system. That's really why they're furloughed. Has nothing to do with foreigners.
No US airline, to my knowledge, has a clause that will provide sponsorship to a foreign pilot. That foreigner has to have permanent residency in the US (green card) at the minimum. If he/she does... so what? They have every legal right to work in the US, just like you do...
However, they cannot:
- hold security clearance... green card holders cannot be FFDO's for example.
- hold an elected office until they become citizens, and they can never be the president.
- vote.
- be commissioned officers in the military - they can however enlist.
Also, before every simulator training session, even green card holders have to obtain TSA clearance, unlike US citizens.
As for griping about JAA/EASA and how it's a PITA to obtain their license, well.... you may have a point there - though if you have residency in the EU, and if you're typed, they can validate your license and you can fly with them for up to a year on a validated FAA license, though at some point you'll need to convert it to full JAA license.
Take it easy bud... lots of us are living/flying and making a decent living abroad because we refuse to be paid peanuts in the US.
09-28-2010, 11:28 PM
#9
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: L Side
Posts: 409
Would someone please educate me as to why people with foreign citizenship and passports are able to work for airlines based in the United States when in many countries in Europe and elsewhere it is impossible to get a job without citizenship? Why are foreign pilots getting jobs in the United States while my U.S. born brothers and sisters are furloughed and on the streets. It's not a race debate, its an ethics debate. I'm not trying to be a bigot, but I am trying to understand......
I guess one thing those "people with foreign citizenship" have learned is the American immigration laws. As a "U.S. born brother or sister" the very least that you should do is make yourself familiar with the laws of the country that you were born in and live in. I suggest using the search engine of your choice to do some reading on the subject. It would be nice if you did a 3,000 word essay and submit it here so that the mods could sticky it for all to see.
I am currently on my third job outside of the U.S. or it's territories. I am here working alongside people from all over the world and most get along fairly well. I am here because it was (again) the best option if I wanted to continue to fly and further my career.
Though I don't have the numbers, I would bet money that the U.S. is the biggest pilot exporter in the world. Think about that the next time you complain about "foreigners" stealing your job.
BTW, if you are Native American, then I sincerely apologize as the rest of us are truly foreigners in your country.
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