Will PNCL go a decade without a contract???
10-19-2010, 12:19 PM
#1
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Will PNCL go a decade without a contract???
Has there ever been an airline to go longer than Pinnacle has been in contract negotiations? Is 9E in record setting airline pilot negotiations?
From my viewpiont, it just seems there's no pressure from any inside or outside source to get a contract. All of the emails regarding this continue to say the same exact thing..."progress has been made, but yet we still have more work to do. Remain strong and unified, success will be achieved"......after nearly 7 years of that same old song repeating itself, I must only wonder if it's just the same story passed down generation to generation.
From my viewpiont, it just seems there's no pressure from any inside or outside source to get a contract. All of the emails regarding this continue to say the same exact thing..."progress has been made, but yet we still have more work to do. Remain strong and unified, success will be achieved"......after nearly 7 years of that same old song repeating itself, I must only wonder if it's just the same story passed down generation to generation.
10-19-2010, 12:56 PM
#2
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Originally Posted by Pinchanickled
Has there ever been an airline to go longer than Pinnacle has been in contract negotiations? Is 9E in record setting airline pilot negotiations?
From my viewpiont, it just seems there's no pressure from any inside or outside source to get a contract. All of the emails regarding this continue to say the same exact thing..."progress has been made, but yet we still have more work to do. Remain strong and unified, success will be achieved"......after nearly 7 years of that same old song repeating itself, I must only wonder if it's just the same story passed down generation to generation.
From my viewpiont, it just seems there's no pressure from any inside or outside source to get a contract. All of the emails regarding this continue to say the same exact thing..."progress has been made, but yet we still have more work to do. Remain strong and unified, success will be achieved"......after nearly 7 years of that same old song repeating itself, I must only wonder if it's just the same story passed down generation to generation.
10-19-2010, 01:09 PM
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RU4692:
Many of us have. However the even the smallest positions available are given out via the buddy system quickly. Help wanted isn't advertised, rather kept on the down low. When you call reps, no response, when you fill out hotel perfoance reports, no response, when you file a grievance, again nj response and if your lucky your grievance might get picked as one of the "lucky 8" that will be represented to the arbitrator. Even the smallest union rep positions have perks, such as monthly reimbursement of your cell phone with no accountability to return calls or even answer.
Lots of people would love to help, but it had to be welcomed and accepted first.
By the way I dig your statement at the end of each of your posts........reminds of 9E contract negotiations! "it goes on".
Many of us have. However the even the smallest positions available are given out via the buddy system quickly. Help wanted isn't advertised, rather kept on the down low. When you call reps, no response, when you fill out hotel perfoance reports, no response, when you file a grievance, again nj response and if your lucky your grievance might get picked as one of the "lucky 8" that will be represented to the arbitrator. Even the smallest union rep positions have perks, such as monthly reimbursement of your cell phone with no accountability to return calls or even answer.
Lots of people would love to help, but it had to be welcomed and accepted first.
By the way I dig your statement at the end of each of your posts........reminds of 9E contract negotiations! "it goes on".
10-19-2010, 08:13 PM
#5
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Originally Posted by bored
Huh? I know it's been a long time for you guys... but are we reading the same negotiating updates? AFAIK they're pouring all their resources into this joint contract, which is halfway done. Negotiations are scheduled every week until the 15th. They all seem to be eager and confident the deal will be wrapped up by the November 15th deadline.
As soon as they announced their intentions after the Mesaba purchase, the game changed. Now they have all kinds of pressure to get a deal done ASAP. The sooner they get a deal done, the sooner they can start integrating, which will save them tons of money. That itself, is incentive for the company to get a deal done.
As soon as they announced their intentions after the Mesaba purchase, the game changed. Now they have all kinds of pressure to get a deal done ASAP. The sooner they get a deal done, the sooner they can start integrating, which will save them tons of money. That itself, is incentive for the company to get a deal done.
10-20-2010, 07:35 AM
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Let me guess, they're agreeing to all sorts of things, saying they're making great progress, but no one has heard a peep about a single issue that actually affects them.
Any agreements yet to...
> Scope
> Pay
> Work rules
? If not, theres nothing to see here.
Any agreements yet to...
> Scope
> Pay
> Work rules
? If not, theres nothing to see here.
10-20-2010, 07:58 AM
#7
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Originally Posted by Pinchanickled
RU4692:
Many of us have. However the even the smallest positions available are given out via the buddy system quickly. Help wanted isn't advertised, rather kept on the down low. When you call reps, no response, when you fill out hotel perfoance reports, no response, when you file a grievance, again nj response and if your lucky your grievance might get picked as one of the "lucky 8" that will be represented to the arbitrator. Even the smallest union rep positions have perks, such as monthly reimbursement of your cell phone with no accountability to return calls or even answer.
Lots of people would love to help, but it had to be welcomed and accepted first.
By the way I dig your statement at the end of each of your posts........reminds of 9E contract negotiations! "it goes on".
Many of us have. However the even the smallest positions available are given out via the buddy system quickly. Help wanted isn't advertised, rather kept on the down low. When you call reps, no response, when you fill out hotel perfoance reports, no response, when you file a grievance, again nj response and if your lucky your grievance might get picked as one of the "lucky 8" that will be represented to the arbitrator. Even the smallest union rep positions have perks, such as monthly reimbursement of your cell phone with no accountability to return calls or even answer.
Lots of people would love to help, but it had to be welcomed and accepted first.
By the way I dig your statement at the end of each of your posts........reminds of 9E contract negotiations! "it goes on".
Name your committee of interest.... If you want to get involved I will make that happen. We sent out an email for P2P volunteers.. Had about 50 get back to me and I out em all to work. If you are interested look me up.
10-20-2010, 09:16 AM
#8
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Originally Posted by bored
True, the meaty subjects have yet to be proposed or are being proposed this week (section 25, according to the last hotline). A rep explained it to me this way... what's being proposed is either Mesaba current contract, latest Pinnacle TA language or a combination of the two. Nothing being proposed is all that radically different from what was already agreed to in the Pinnacle TAs or mgmt knew what they were getting with the XJ contract. I was very skeptical with the November 15th deadline in the beginning, but after talking to my rep, I think the deal can actually get done. Honestly, it sounds like retirement and insurance will be a harder sell than pay. As for the perdiem... I don't think it's that a dollar amount wasn't agreed to, it's just that it hasn't been proposed yet.
If this, and what you say, is true.... then it looks like the combined group isn't doing much to really improve things for everyone or raise the industry bar. Pinnacle alone may be one thing, but this new combined airline is going to be a giant, one of the largest regionals and one of the largest ALPA carriers. What they agree to is going to be a very big influence in other negotiations at other airlines.
For the sake of all of us guys, please get this one right. Even if management is so hard-pressed to get it done, that doesn't mean you can't vote no. Don't vote yes until you get a TA thats up to the standards you all expect and deserve.
10-20-2010, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by bored
Actually, the Mesaba contract only has an LOA that outlined a few concessionary areas. Since signing that LOA in 2006, we've snapped back on all but a couple things. Our pay on December 1 will snap back and then some, our perdiem will snap back and uniform allowance will snap back as well. All other areas have already snapped back. Other than that, the contract is still the one signed in 2004. Work rules were untouched as was the bulk of the contract. So... calling it a concessionary contract isn't entirely accurate. What it is though, is a 2004 contract that has been extended and needs some updating. I can't speak for the Pinnacle TAs since they were never really made public. If they make gains from current book and aren't worse than the XJ current book, I'm not so sure we can expect much more.
Having said that... after talking to my rep it sounds like the joint negotiating committee is committed to producing a TA that allows all pilots to find gains and doesn't force any pilot backwards. For Colgan and Pinnacle pilots there will be incredible gains from their current agreements. For Mesaba pilots there will be a few tweaks with improvements, but nothing earth shattering.
I think the devil lies in the duration and the pay increases beyond DOS. That, IMO, will drive the vote. I don't think we should or can expect anything beyond average to slightly above average out of this deal, especially given the time-line. Maybe the answer is a short duration for now and try to extract all the value we can with the momentum of merging and prepare for a bigger and more aggressive section 6 a short time down the road.
Having said that... after talking to my rep it sounds like the joint negotiating committee is committed to producing a TA that allows all pilots to find gains and doesn't force any pilot backwards. For Colgan and Pinnacle pilots there will be incredible gains from their current agreements. For Mesaba pilots there will be a few tweaks with improvements, but nothing earth shattering.
I think the devil lies in the duration and the pay increases beyond DOS. That, IMO, will drive the vote. I don't think we should or can expect anything beyond average to slightly above average out of this deal, especially given the time-line. Maybe the answer is a short duration for now and try to extract all the value we can with the momentum of merging and prepare for a bigger and more aggressive section 6 a short time down the road.
Wasn't it the first regional, if not the first airline contract negotiated after 9-11?
And how long until we might have a chance to get any gains after this contract?
10-20-2010, 11:00 AM
#10
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Originally Posted by bored
We were indeed negotiating during 9/11 and that had a huge effect on the results, as did the Mesa contract and the Big Sky threat. But the end result is a contract that really isn't that bad. We have a lot of good things in the contract that we still enjoy, which were untouched in LOA23. It's an old contract that needs updating, for sure. But it's not as horrible as some people seem to think it is. I voted NO in 2004, and will vote NO again in 2010 if what's produced doesn't meet my needs and the needs of the pilot group. A no or yes vote, however, has to come based on a comprehensive look at the whole contract, not just pay rates. It also has to make sense for us and can only be compared to other airlines, to a certain extent.
According to the rep I spoke with, the company is full aware that this joint agreement will come in place of a section 6 for XJ and that there will be value returned. I believe that's why they're waiting to propose DOS + increases. The elephant in the room also, is splitting the FO pay scales, which will be a HUGE gain for ALL FOs.
According to the rep I spoke with, the company is full aware that this joint agreement will come in place of a section 6 for XJ and that there will be value returned. I believe that's why they're waiting to propose DOS + increases. The elephant in the room also, is splitting the FO pay scales, which will be a HUGE gain for ALL FOs.
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