ASA/XJT JCBA: No Dual Qual!
 

Good morning ASA/XJTers,

A friendly reminder to please complete the JCBA survey on the ALPA website. Let the MEC's know what you want from our contract!

I've been hearing that our MEC is willing to negotiate dual qual, so let's remind our MEC that we are not interested in dual qual for the CRJ fleet! Dual qual reduces the staffing requirements of the airline and overall reduces compensation for the pilot group. No blended rates!

My JCBA wishlist:
-Enhanced Scope
-XJT sick policy
-Tightening up the contract language
-Pay bumps, especially considering XJT is on a concessionary contract
-No dual qual

Feel free to add to the list, and spread the word to complete the survey!

Personally, I agree with all of the above, except I don't have a problem with blended rates or Dual (triple?) qualification. Overall compensation does not have to be reduced and quality of life can be increased because the company can more easily mix up the schedules. Especially if we can use it as a tool to procure strong scheduling language, I'm all for it!

Otherwise, we definitely need to enhance scope, I'd love XJT's sick policy and the contract had better not include 'to the best of the company's ability' or any semblance there-of!

Dual qual isn't bad if all the credits are based on the higher paying AC. Skywest's, I believe, is all based off the lower paying aircraft.

What is Xjet's sick policy? The last Xjet js'er we had said they needed a dr's note everytime they called in sick. I do not like ASA's draconian occurence policy. To add to the list:

- the ability to drop trips without going through a chief pilot.

We need to have dual qual. Separate lists are very inefficient. No other airline in the industry has separate lists for the 200/700/900. Even Jazz in Canada has their pilots fly all three. The pilot group has to be reasonable here. As long as the pilot group is reasonably compensated by management:D

You don't have to provide a doctor's note, however, if you do it is not counted as an occurrence. You're allowed 3 sick calls a year without a doctor's note. On the 4th, you get the nastygram in your v-file, on the 5th, a carpet dance, and the 6th a termination hearing.

Your sick bank accrues 5 hrs. a month....which MUST be preserved in the JCBA.

Take a look at the Jazz payrates, dual qual doesn't seem to be a problem with getting a reasonable wage.

Comair, Mesaba, Pinnacle don't have dual Qual.

Those figures are in Canadian Dollars, but yes, the pay is significantly more than what US regional's pay their FOs when you do the conversion.

1st year - US $39
2nd year - US $44
3rd year - US $51

It would be nice to see that kind of pay or get close to that kind of pay. Some of the others things I'd like to see down here in the US that Jazz was able to do...

Minimum days off: Lineholders: 14; Reserve: 12
Overtime: 150% pay over 85 hours/mo


I think it'll remain a dream unfortunately...

Having specific qualifications is leverage on part of the pilot group and the company would really benefit if we gave it up. It's plain and simple. The company can potentially generate more revenue using a CR9 with first class than using a CR2. If they want to level the crew costs, the pilot group MUST see a substantial benefit as a whole. That is totally reasonable. Remember, "give them an inch and the will take ten feet". We need to unify and bargain for items that benefit the pilot group as a whole.

In my eyes, reserve pilot and first officer language needs to be spruced up. Any pilot hired from now on is going to spend a great deal of time on reserve and even longer as a first officer. Upgrade time will most likely become quite lengthy given the size of the pilot group.

You guys will want Dual Qual. It greatly enhances YOUR schedule flexibility and QOL. Of course you should have appropriate rates for each aircraft, with a blended rate used ONLY for vacation, training, etc. It also makes your company more efficient, just in case anyone plans on sticking around for the long-term.

It's not a safety problem IMO. Airbus and B75/76 drivers have been doing this for longer than we have...

But watch out for super-senior types...they will want no DQ so they can lock in the best rate for themselves, and apply it to all non-flight pay as well. Leaving junior folks to suck it up on a disproportionally lower rate on the 200 of course.

Just want to point out that Pinnacle, Mesaba, and Comair do not have dual qual.

Let's say we do entertain dual qual. Under what conditions would we accept these terms? I would need the blended rate to be heavily in favor of the larger aircraft. Any other ideas? The way I see it, dual qual is a concession on the part of the pilots because of the reduced staffing. Do we really want to reduce our staffing requirements even more than what PBS will accomplish?

Under the right conditions, I'd vote in favor of dual qual. It's not about the airplane itself, as I'm not even a 700 driver anymore, but the quality of life issues. Example, I'd lose quite a bit of seniority in my seat should we move to dual qual, as would most 200 captains. No bueno, which is why I'd want za blended rate favoring the 700. There are other issues that concern me, but I'll wait until I don't have to fight with my retarded phone to continue.

What else do you guys want in the JCBA?

Vacation/Ready Reserve
 

Something else we lost in our last contract that we need to get back is being able to maximize time off with vacation. Under our previous contract, any trip that touched vacation could be dropped without affecting pay. I understand this is the way the XJT contract still is. Under our current contract, if you choose to drop the portion of trips that fall outside of your vacation, you can see your pay reduced significantly below min guarantee. More than a few pilots here learned this the hard way when they got a fraction of their normal paycheck after bidding their vacation month without this knowledge.

On another note, the Ready Reserve rules need to be tightened up and brought more in line with XJT's. Line holders complain about a three hour sit of "airport appreciation"... Try an eight hour sit up to six times a month seemingly assigned at the whim of Crew Scheduling!

I really like being dual qualified because it maximizes my schedule flexibility and I have a better chance of getting the days off that I want. Just don't adopt the same "Brad Holt Override" that we have!

Keep in mind that the cost of living in Canada is much much much more than down here. Higher taxes as well.

100% Agreed. Well said.

I stand corrected on the we're the only one that flies it separately statement.

Like others have stated, I believe your QOL will most likely improve with dual qual due to increased schedule flexibility. Imagine being able to fly a United 200 trip with long overnights in Chicago or NYC one week then flying a 700/900 trip the next week with a long Toronto or Key West? The schedules will just be able to get that much better.

As far a payrate, the pilot group should absolutely not accept a "Brad Holt Override" for Dual Qual. I am strongly in favor of a blended payrate based on a percentage ratio of 200 to 700/900 aircraft. The new JCBA 200 payrate used in the blended payrate should be at least what current 700/900 pay is and the new JCBA 700/900 rates higher than the 200 JCBA rate.

Of course payrates is just a small part of the picture as other contractual issues like recurrent checkride switcheroos between 200 and 700/900 will have to accounted for:D

Awh come on, the cost of living in NYC is more than Toronto, and there is nobody with an NYC base paying Jazz payrates:D

Dual qual is coming I can almost promise that. Saves a load of money for the company.

Maybe a combination of PBS and dual qual would help us grow in some ways but who knows. Price is right is on I am gonna go watch the models show off a vacuum cleaner or something.

Later fella's

I don't think that pilots who have never flown the -700/900 should have their opinion counted as to whether we should fly both. Unless you've done it, you have nothing to base that opinion on except selfish financial or schedule motivation, and most 700 pilots will tell you they don't ever want to fly the 200 again!

How about this: get senior enough to bid it instead of trying to steal seniority/pay from the ones already on it?

It's such BS that Regional guys have to put up with this. At Delta the most junior pilots gets 125 hours of sick pay every year. It's a longevity based system so at some point(8-10 years I think) you cap out at 240 hours of sick time every year. It's use it or lose it sick time.

Now, you can use 300 hours in a rolling 3 year period at 100% & once you exceed that the sick time is paid out at less then 100%, but the Delta Pilot Mutual Aid makes up the difference. Also, if I call in sick for my first trip of the month & end up being sick all month that is ONE sick call. They will just mark me off as sick until I call back and tell them I'm better. Basically I have to 'call in well'.

Sorry for the hi-jack, just wanted to throw it out there. I just can't believe these Regional management jerks get away with this crap. :mad:

And before you all get spooled up, I know for a fact that our MEC puts exactly zero weight on message board posts when making decisions. So the only valid place to discuss this and have your opinion counted is in the survey or directly with the reps.

Captain Tony is right guys. Do the survey, talk to your Reps. Let your voices be heard.

I've flown the 700/900 and now on the 200 making more money with increased qol due to me having better seniority of the 200.

The 700 is a much much better flying airplane but the 200 has much more variety due to the greater number of destinations and UAL flying. If in the JCBA contract we get a blended payrate that is higher than current 700/900 pay in return for dual qual I don't even think the senior guys will want to pass that up.

here are a few things I suggested in the survey in no particular order:

1) a no furlough clause
2) no movement of off days at all
3) ready reserve reduced to 6 or 4 hours, 8 is just too long!
4) ability to use sick time as paid personal time, for example.....I would like next Thursday off so I schedule 3.75 of sick time to get the day off if staffing looks good. It then comes out of my sick bank and doesn't count against my attendance.
5) better pay

that is just a few things

How about incorporating the newly proposed FAA work rules into our contract since they can't seem to get them passed?

Particularly 8 hours behind the door and limits on duty day, INCLUDING deadhead! You XJETers may not know this, but ASA has been "creatively interpreting" the regs to not apply to anything other than flight duty to the Whitlow 16 hour limit. Actual quote from Scheduling: "We can deadhead you around for two days if we want to". Welcome to the party guys.

Apparently FO opinions don't count! :) Very nicely put reply!

How do you come to that conclusion? And what did your statement really contribute to the conversation other than the self gratification of cheering for someone who told off someone you don't like?

Here's another nice tidbit to discuss: the question about forcing senior lineholders onto reserve to "relieve" those stuck on long term reserve?

In my observation, this is an attitude more prevalent among ASA 700 captains and some of the more senior 700 FOs. Personally, I see this as an easy way to make gains for the pilot contract while giving the company greater flexibility so that it can be more competitive.

It's a discussion board and that's what we're doing! Maybe minds will change here, maybe not, but if you don't want to be part of the discussion, why post?

I'm guessing I don't take message boards as seriously as you. But for someone who was not/is not contributing much either, you're awful preachy!

Likely we'll fly together at some point and no doubt it'll be fun, so try not to be too offended by my internet flippancy. :)

It would be nice to see incentives built into the reserve system that might entice the more senior pilots to bid reserve occasionally. I've heard that Airtran has a decent system where reserve guys can end up crediting quite a bit more on reserve than while holding a line. I'm not a fan of walking away from the seniority system, but it would be nice to provide some relief for the guys who have been stuck on reserve for 3+ years.

I don't support it. I spent 3 years on reserve at ASA (during the really bad times) and took a ton of abuse from scheduling. I just got off of reserve. Seniority is seniority.

The reserve rules are ridiculous... Plain and simple. Some of the guys at ASA spent zero time on reserve and never experienced what it has become. And the ones that spent some time on reserve didn't get the great experience of sitting Ready reserve 8 hours and then given a 4 day trip that starts two hours after your RR assignment should have ended... (10 hour sit) I have a feeling that the reserve rules will not be changed much in the the next contract.. I am sure we will just get a 30 year pay scale instead...


Now,it would be amusing to hear some of the senior captains deal with scheduling while on reserve. Those conversations would be comical.

Oh my God are you serious? When I read this I got that "scared" feeling in the pit of my stomach. Based on some of the information I've recieved in the past 24 hours I am more afraid than ever for this merger. If we get anything less than our (XJT) trip trade system its going to be one of the biggest consessions our pilot group has ever taken. Let me run down for you how I've been bidding the past 5 years at Express. I drop every single one of my trips then build my own line based on open time (which is usually stacked with premium trips). If I lose this ability I'll honestly be about ready to quit. You're saying to even drop one trip you have to go through the chief EVERY TIME? Dear Lord we are seriously screwed.

You know to your face I would tell you yeh, that's a good idea but being realistic buddy ain't gona happen because in my survey I said hell no...we all did it I know it sucks but that's where you are and im not gona sacrifice my QOL because you happened to get hired after me, guess your gona want to hold a line at my expense in December! Forget that idea dude...two years from now reserve will be a distant memory and now this policy will directly effect you and now it will be you calling BS!

What needs to be looked at r the relief lines and allowing a reserve a shot at one...no that you might get, and you would get more support from us senior guys. But to say I want a seniors pilots line or any line that doesn't fly with us and I think I speak for most who's lives would be effected ...sorry dude

That's almost our exact contract at ExpressJet.....

I hear what you are saying but you have to remember that reserve during the last contract and the one before that etc, were hell compared to reserve now. Even though it sucks, people have experienced much worse. The only difference is that it wasn't for long as pilots are seeing reserve now. Reserve rules and language is not designed to be put up with for years and years.

I'm sure that most would say that if you keep your mouth shut, learn as much as you can and just be a good all around person, after 3 or 4 years you have paid your dues and should hold a line. That may not be the case with this new "super regional" concept. And I think that reserve as a CA is a choice so you can really feel bad for someone that bid to the left seat and is stuck on reserve. Considering that the financial gain/QOL isn't much at all compared to a senior FO holding an awesome line. No one truley forces you to upgrade. Let them give you and incentive to do so.

So I can see it both ways. Reserve was ten times worse in the past but we still need to increase the QOL/pay for reserve pilots given the new circumstances. There should be language on that defines how long a pilot (particularly FO) should be forced to be on reserve. After that, some kind of differential kicks in due to the fact that they have to take one for the team.

What is some of the info you have received?

Are you guys allowed straight drops at XJT? At ASA you can drop a trip by swapping with another trip in opentime or swapping with another line pilot's trip. All of over premium pay trips have been for straight pick ups also.

Oh Siht, now you really have me worried!! 8 hours!!! Ours is 4 hours of ready reserve, 4 hours of pay. Simple as that. We better not settle for 1 single thing less than the best provisions of both contracts! I really hope guys vote and vote intelligently. You can always work more to make more money and get some pay back, you won't get this kind of stuff back once you lose it!

We can straight drop as many trips as we want initially (some months they won't let us take our line below 60 hours depending on staffing). So if I have a 90 hour line I can trade three 4-days for one 3-day if it doesn't take my line below 60 hours if the floor is set for that month. If no floor is set I can trade my entire month for one day trip if I wish, and then rebuild from there.

yeah, if you don't get used in those 8 hours it is SO LONG...

That's the thing. It's no doubt that reserve sucks but we put up with it because it seems as if there is an end in sight. But what happens when you have another hiccup in the economy and no attrition combined with a HUGE pilot group, guys are stuck on reserve for 3-4 years. Yes that's just about the case now. Guys that have been at ASA for 3+ years are still on reserve with no choice other than to quit.

I'm very thankful to not be on reserve but those guys play an integral role in the staffing requirements. They are there for you when you are too fatigued or sick to work. Or maybe you just have something better to do than work like most of us. Yup, they just woke that guy up to fill in for you. Sure it's his job and we all did it. But the system is not designed for someone to have to do that crap for years an years.

Most importantly we need to do fight for things that benefit the pilot group as a whole. Yes that may mean things that are not in the best interest of you in you r current position. Gotta pay it forward sometimes.

Secondly we have to stop playing this cave game, just giving into the sob stories the company gives us that they cannot afford it. There are so many things they could change and work on to cut costs but it's so much easier to ask for concessions from this weak pilot group. That trend needs to stop.