lakehouse

Ajax,

What makes it tough for me is we do not pick you up till 5,000 feet and I drop from 10,000 so I only have about 5 or 6 minutes to get a hold of you guys, and the FAR's REQUIRE we make 2 way communications with you so I have to contact you, no matter how busy you are. I had one guy tell me last year if I called again he would violate me....I cant help it, I have to call, I wish we had a LOA because then it would simplify the process, I dont want a beacon code, I just want a 06B roger when I tell you I am out of 6 for 10 with jumpers, and then to call you a minute prior so you know and let me know if anyone is off HUO for COATE/SAX, then you get jumpers away and 2 min later I say goodbye when you get jumpers below 4k. Thats all I look for, I try to be short and sweet, I just have to cover my butt, this is a short term gig in my career path, and I am not gonna get violated for not making my calls. That all is also only 1% of the time the other 99% are smooth and simple, its just tough when I am flying 20 loads a day and in the air 10 hours, and talking to you guys each time.

Ajax

Our radar coverage on the northwest quadrant off SAX VOR is very poor, and anything below 4000 we wont see. As long as you're climbing to the west of the airport you should be fine. The climbout route you've been flying over the last year seems to be fine. We have no issues with that. The main problem is that Mugzy can get extremely busy, and talking to the "jumper guy" is so far down our priority list, that we tend to just ignore it. Taking care of keeping aircraft apart, and running the TEB/MMU/CDW and EWR rwy 11 arrivals are more important for us.

Another issue is...Mugzy/Zeebo (technically that airspace is Zeebo's but its almost always combined with Mugzy) only own from 7000 and below. 8000 and above belongs to Liberty North (departure sector from another area that handles Coate, Neion, Haays, and Gayel departures). A lot of the controllers on that area don't really wanna bother with you because all they are working is fast moving high altitude aircraft, and they feel we should keep you since you're dropping over our arrivals (which kinda makes sense). The problem with this now switches to us worry about you getting runned over by one of their fast moving coate departures, or any high flying VFR 1200 we may not see due to our filter limits (see below).

The FAA dictates that controllers cant set their radar filter limits any lower than 1300 feet above their highest altitude allotment. That means if Mugzy is controlling 7000 and below, that our filter limits will probably be set at 8300. With the extreme busy nature of the NY metro airspace, going much higher than our required minimums means extra ground clutter, and when its really busy you don't need anything that makes your work harder. What that means is.....many times we may NOT see any aircraft coming at you above 8300 if the controller working Mugzy didn't change his filter limits when you checked in. I try to always swap mine, but when its really busy it may or may not be done. This means..you're really on your own above that altitude, and you're in somebody elses airspace. God forbids something happens, the first thing investigators are going to ask us is "why were you working this aircraft outside your airspace?" This means..many of us don't like having the extra liability burden, and that's why you see inconsistencies on getting handed off to 118.17 (Liberty North).

In any case, I know you guys are here to stay, but your operation is one of the many reasons why I hate working Mugsy, and why that position remains the most complex radar sector in our area.

[QUOTEHaha maybe it is the wolfman? and we can not help where we are located nor will we go anywhere. However down at our south jersey location they are right on the Philly Intl Cedar Lake arrival, and they put in an INT called JUMPP for when they are jumping to bring PHL ariv. 2 miles around crosskeys airport. I think the biggest thing is communication, I know when I fly I do not drop anyone when you guys advice traffic, and it is easy for us to see the IFR arrivals as they come the same route and your eyes get trained for it. I also visited your facility to get a better idea of how your end looks. I also think you can agree the climb I use is about as out of the way as we can get, as I have been using the same exact one for over a year now, and I am basically the only one flying the 182 this year, except days I was off work. As for an accident, yes it is always something to keep in mind, but the sky is also very large, and our jumpers are trained to also look before they jump and clear the airspace, and I know I hold when you say there is IFR traffic. One thing is for sure we are not going anywhere, as we have seen massive growth over the last 2 years alone, esp with the Kingair this year, we are looking at having a full time Otter or Caravan next season, and you will soon see us similar in size to the Ranch @ Gardner NY. I just hope we get a LOA soon to streamline the process and help the IFR traffiic/jumper traffic workout smoother, I feel this year has been 100X better than last year when it came to that.

-Rick
QUOTE]

No, I'm not Paul (not sure where you got the Wolfman nickname--we don't call him that)

I'll give you a hint. I'm one of the few that gives 2 advisories. One when you give me the minute prior, and another while in progress.

lakehouse

Its good to learn all this stuff, this is even more why we should have an LOA that clearly states we do not get Flight following at all. Our Kingair has the poor mans TCAS and we will soon even have it in the 182s. What I have found is that as long as by 7500feet I am northeast of Coate heading back toward Sussex it keeps me clear of 118.17 traffic. I know I never ever even touch the Shaft5 area, though to avoid wx we do get close sometimes. My big thing is I just want someone to say Roger when I make the calls to cover my butt, and have them just let me know if something is inbound off HUO, as I am required to do it. You guys are super busy and that makes is the biggest thing that makes this difficult, but I hope it gets more streamlined sooner, than have it get chaotic down the road when you have a twinotter dropping upto 24 bodys every 20min from 8am till 9pm on Saturdays in Aug.

runwayrat

Ajax,

Thanks for the time and for the heads up posting here. Just so happens that today we got (without asking) the ARD/MAZIE shortcut to PHL soon after departing EWR...it made a huge difference especially considering the conditions this afternoon. I have to say thanks, whoever it was! Must've been a slow Saturday

Ajax

humm, was it on the evening? I worked departure on 2 different sessions, and handed off a couple that I coordinated the shorcut for....and yes, it was a slow evening, so coordinating that was no problem at all.